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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-AlignOther › Red Dampners From Ready Heli
09-08-2006 07:45 PM  14 years ago
concept1

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Youngstown, OH

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one thing that has not been discussed is the blades being used. with these small blades, we don't discuss it much if at all, but the cordwise balance of the blades will have the biggest input on flight characteristics. if you have flown 50 sized heli's or larger (especially Raptors) you probalby all ready know this. but some blades fly smoother and some 3D better because of 3 things 1 the weight 2 the stifness and 3rd balance I always forget what it's called I think the cordwise balance (the balance between the leading edge and the trailing edge of the blade). the farther forward the balance is toward the leading edge of the blade the smoother it will fly, closer to the center the more wilder it will be and the more pitchy it will be. this was a big problem of the Woof and poof on the early Raptors guys went crazy with head mods, and some just changed blades. So it may just be the dynamics of his blades may not like the stiff head! have you ever looked inside the blades, to see how they are constructed, some are hollow, some have weighted leading edges, some have a solid carbon leading edge, some just use lead weight on the tips. anyway you get the idea.sme blades are good at everything you throw at them and some 3D great but can't do FFF worth crap, dampening is only half the battle, it has only been recently that we have several good choices on blades.
but for curiosity Wasp, do you have another set of blades? I would love to hear if the blades make any diffrence
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09-08-2006 09:56 PM  14 years ago
3D WASP

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but I can do flips, rolls, loops, etc. and am starting to work on inverted hovering. Perhaps once I start doing tic-tocs and the like I may notice more of a tendency for the heli to not stop as precise.
With how you are flying, from my experience, you will notice little to no change at all with those moves. Tic toc's are what the dampening caused the most obvious change on. Now I'm talking of some hard pitch pumping tic tocs, some thrown in with a W with real low catch, also pitch changes on chaos weren't nearly as crispy with the red dampners. Please let it be known, for smoother 3d moves I would recommend these dampners. But for really beating the hell out of the heli, they dont cut it.
Wasp, did I misunderstand your posts or do you really prefer flying 3D with stock non-shimmed dampening?
2 o-rings, small shim, and yes I prefer this for hard 3d as to the red dampners. As far as blades go Concept, I'm flying 325 Kok carbons. They are a very low profile blade, and have the best stopping iv'e tried. I'm guessing they balance closer to the center as they are very pitchy, more so that sabs or hyperions. Iv'e blown up a set and theyv'e got wood and foam in them, cant exactly remember where the wood was, So from that view point I cant actually TELL you where they balance, but from flight characteristics I'd go with more toward the center...will be a good thing to check next time I explode a pair. Now I have not tried these red dampners with differnt blades. This could have an effect, likely so. In fact i'd go test that right now, but I just blew up my sab's on my 4 cell yesterday, only left with Kok's at the moment, will have to try different blades later.
Timing is everything
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09-18-2006 06:36 PM  14 years ago
Lorents

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Oslo, Norway

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Hi,

Here is a video of my trex with red dampers, KOK 325, medusa 3400, 12t pinion. The setup should be similar to yours:

http://www.lojal.no/userfiles/trex_lh.wmv
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09-20-2006 11:08 AM  14 years ago
Luckylandings

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Oregon USA

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Looks like Lorents got it going on!
Thanks for the vid... Looks like a killer build and choice of electronics, etc.. Keep the vids coming bud! Loved it! JG

________
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09-20-2006 06:40 PM  14 years ago
Lorents

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Oslo, Norway

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Thanks LuckyLandings, appreciate it

I might not be flying it as hard as the Wasp, but was hoping he would comment on the lack of "stopping power" in my trex using the red dampeners and KOK 325's
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09-20-2006 06:49 PM  14 years ago
Trooper Sam

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Perris, California - USA

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I put in the red dampeners last week, and my heli has never felt smoother. Hovers almost hands off, now.Trooper Sam

We do not do this to save money, we save money to do this-TheRickster
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09-20-2006 07:27 PM  14 years ago
ptarp

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IL

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I might not be flying it as hard as the Wasp, but was hoping he would comment on the lack of "stopping power" in my trex using the red dampeners and KOK 325's
I know, not once did your heli slam into the ground b/c it couldn't stop itself!

Seriously though, I'm sure whatever wasp was feeling probably wouldn't be noticeable to an observer either.

Philip
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09-20-2006 07:35 PM  14 years ago
caseyjholmes

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Portland, Oregon

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might not be flying it as hard as the Wasp, but was hoping he would comment on the lack of "stopping power" in my trex using the red dampeners and KOK 325's
That was good flying for sure.. but..
You fly nowhere near WASP's level of flying
That wasn't the best demo video of stopping power either.. Coulda used alot more tic tocs and some "brick wall" stops to help a little more..
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09-20-2006 08:59 PM  14 years ago
Lorents

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Oslo, Norway

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Ok

It would be very cool if you guys could make a video that shows the difference in stopping power. I suspect some people think these dampeneres are unsuitable for 3D flying after reading these posts, and that is really not the case - at least not for us who fly at a more moderate level.
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09-20-2006 10:28 PM  14 years ago
mikencg

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Cincinnati, Ohio

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WASP,

I'm sorry to hear that you were disappointed with the performance of the Dampeners. I can honestly say that you are the first person I have heard of who didn't think they blew away the stock dampening system.

I too would like to see a video of the type of 3D you are doing where a very loose dampening system out performs a tighter one. I have been flying for many years and there was never a case where I thought I needed to soften the dampening on one of my helicopters.

I designed the Red Dampeners for the T-Rex because I was having several problems with the stock ones. First I would get about 5-6 flights before they started coming apart and became too loose for good 3D. Second the stock system was just plain too soft for good responsive and predictable cyclic control. Perhaps its just my flying style, but I don't understand how a super soft system (one that could alter collective performance) could promote better 3D flying.

How often are you changing out the stock dampeners?

Here is another video for you to take a look at.
http://www.truebloodengineering.com...2&g2_itemId=108

I know there are some tic-tocs and other collective stop stuff in there, so let me know what you think. If I get a chance in the next few days I'll get some video of my own T-Rex working the collective hard so you can see the performance.

Also, thanks for the vid Lorents. Good flying.

Mike Trueblood
Trueblood Engineering LLC
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09-21-2006 03:20 AM  14 years ago
adamsz06

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Geilenkirchen Germany

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Just thought I'd throw this in...I'm progressing to mild 3D and couldn't make the jump to FFF until I stiffened up the head on my Rex. The stock dampning felt mushy and I felt like I was always overcorrecting (with flybar weights by the paddles..),due to a lack of feel. In the last 2 weeks I've put in the red dampners, changed the servos to HS65's, put on carbon paddles, removed the weights and put on V-blades. No expo...what a difference!!! The first two flights were scary just hovering as I picked my headspeed up to 2800, but on the third flight I realized that I was just used to flying the "soft" setup. It's so responsive, I don't overcorrect and I'm confident that it's going to do what I want it to...hovers well also, cylclic response is nuts; pumping the collective just makes it hop, like it's trying to break an invisble chain. Red dampners oughtta be in the kit!R.I.P. Roman
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09-21-2006 03:43 AM  14 years ago
3D WASP

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Alright guys, lets make this CRYSTAL CLEAR! I would absolutely recommend these dampners for hovering, ff, and mild, smoother 3d!! Theres no doubt about that. However stick banging hard 3d, the stiff dampening keeps the head too tight. This being it doesn't allow the feathering shaft to move up in the head block, like the stock ones do. Grab your heli and try and move the whole feathering shaft up, with stock dampening with 2-orings you can move it up, it takes effort but its definatly there, now look at what that is doing to the blade pitch....its giving it more right? This allows that very sudden stop to occur. Now this only works with the little rex, bigger helis have a differnt dampening system. In no way am I bashing your red heli dampners, I bought 3 sets of them thinking they were going to help my flying, not the case the way I fly, it had the opposite effect. Next time Casey comes out here with his camera I'll do a demo video on stopping. Lorents, that was indeed some good flying. However you didn't do any moves that would show how the heli stops. I'm talking pitch pumping tic tocs, full negaitve to the ground then hit the wall. That video all though good did nothing to illustrate stopping ability. I actually got a very good video on film today with my camera, too bad I dont have the software or cable to upload it on to my computer for you to see. But Casey does, I'll show you what the stop is all about here soon.Timing is everything
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09-21-2006 08:20 AM  14 years ago
Lorents

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Oslo, Norway

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Great, looking forward to see some real stopping power in that video
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09-21-2006 10:18 AM  14 years ago
TrexRookie

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San Francisco, CA

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The only thing I can think of when it comes to the "stopping power" that you speak of is this... stock head dampeners are softer, therefore allow more play in the spindle. Now imagine that the angle of the MAIN SHAFT in proportion to the ground is what determines the effectiveness of your ability to stop. For example... If your main shaft is parallel to the ground, you basically have zero ability to stop your heli from hitting the ground. This is because the airflow being produced by your main blades aren't being directed towards the ground by the mass of the heli.

Now if your main shaft is perpendicular to the ground, it is pulling your rotor disc to the direction of the ground, forcing air to push against the ground below it. This would be easier to achieve with softer (stock) head dampeners because it allows the rotor head to move almost independently in relation to the spindle. In other words, softer head dampeners make it easier for a vertical stop to occur.

Because the Trueblood head dampeners are stiffer, the heli's ability to fling its weight straight down during an abrupt vertical stop is impeded. Have you noticed your heli drift a little bit immediately after trying to perform an abrupt stop? That is because the buffering effect of softer dampeners prevents that from happening. The cyclic response is much more crisp, therefore flight accuracy is much more pilot intensive. Personally, I like the Trueblood head dampeners... (yes, they ARE on my heli..) They last forever, they give me crisp cyclic response in both normal and 3d flight, and once you're used to them, they actually give you more control over the heli in the long run...

Does this make sense to anyone? Please tell me if I'm just blowing smoke out my arse. But if it makes any sense, I'd like to hear your feedback...
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09-21-2006 04:16 PM  14 years ago
caseyjholmes

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Portland, Oregon

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Here is an interesting test I performed..

Two days ago I flew 4 lipos, then crashed my trex. The next day (yesterday), I rebuilt it with new dampeners and went out to fly it. It had less stopping power from the new stock align 0-ring dampeners than it did with a set of worn in dampeners that had about 25 flights on them. (same pitch, same throws, same setup as before the crash) This being from the softer o-rings adding more pitch when you stop. With stiffer dampeneing, my heli would not tic toc as well. Even I can notice it! Somone has to agree. I havn't tried the ready heli dampeners, but if I Can notice the difference in stop power from some used to some brand new align dampeners, I can bet there is a huge difference switching to the ready heli dampeners for sure!

In other words, the red dampeners could losen up, just as my stock align o-ring dampeners, and could have different characteristics between a used and a new set as well, effecting stopping power. I can notice it on the align o-rings between a new set and a worn set of dampeners alone!

Sure, it still does tic tocs really fast and all, but not with as much auhority as with softer dampeneing.

I'll stick with align stock 0-rings. IF I stiffened up the head more than a fresh pair of align O-rings, I don't think I'd like it either..
Switching from wood to carbon blades already robs enough head flex as it is.
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09-21-2006 04:39 PM  14 years ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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This stopping power y'all are talking about, I get by overpitching the machine. IMHO, I would rather do it in the radio than depend on the teeter rubbers.

TM
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09-21-2006 04:42 PM  14 years ago
caseyjholmes

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Portland, Oregon

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True, but the conversation is about weather or not they make a noticable difference without changing radio settings..
You should notice the difference at any pitch. And weather or not the change is good, seems to depend on the pilot..

why don't they make a soft set and a hard set of ready heli dampeners, so the user can find which one they like? Make some blue soft ones and red hard ones.. like a raptor. Then let us decide which ones we like. Just remove a drop of hardener from the formula and let the softer ones dry longer. I've molded urathane, I'm going make some dampeners.. BBL.. What color should they be?
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09-21-2006 05:04 PM  14 years ago
caseyjholmes

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Portland, Oregon

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OK, Check it out..
I used to mold urathane wheels for robots that sumo fight eachother. Playing with different mixes of urathane and hardener, I Was able to fine tune the urathane to the wheel traction I needed. In other words, you can fine tune the urathane to fit the helicopter pilot for dampening.
I am out of part B in my urathane chem lab, so I need to order more. I will today, and I'll make some dampeners asap. Here is a shot of some other stuff I have molded with urathane..
(the synlube stuff is to release the urathane from the mold without problems)


robot wheels of urathane...
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09-21-2006 07:16 PM  14 years ago
TomRex

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West Palm Beach Join Date: 12-28-2005

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I just had a thought, (red O-rings) What if the head dampining worked so well that the loss of "stopping power" was nothing more than the head being much more effiecient making the motor/head load up loosing a bit of power resulting in "stopping power" loss. I got the red rings DeeTee has and really like them. the V blades red rings combo is the bomb for now...
How bout it?
Ignorance is the absence of facts.Stupid is lacking the intellectual capacity to comprehend the fact
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09-21-2006 09:18 PM  14 years ago
Jon the Rooster

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Johns Island, Charleston, SC

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I just had a thought, (red O-rings) What if the head dampining worked so well that the loss of "stopping power" was nothing more than the head being much more effiecient making the motor/head load up loosing a bit of power resulting in "stopping power" loss.
Does sound good! Last weekend I made a bad move and layed down some hard collective to save my Rex & it did the wall stop mabey a hole second. It can be done with the Red Dampers, just takes pratice from being more precise!
and one more thing "DON'T BE AFRAID!"
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