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07-23-2006 08:52 AM  14 years ago
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CRJBenny

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Pocatello, ID

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Rules of AP Helicopters
Over the last year I have heard some really great and invaluable words of wisdom I have taken mental note of.
I was just wondering what brief all out rules, do's and dont's and words of wisdom You have all compiled in your experiences.

For example:

1.Things arent balanced, They shake.
2.Things shake, you get more problems

Wobble: rotor head
Buzz: Engine tuning or tail

Fix the problems on the build not the test flights.

Allways land with plenty of fuel.

Allways have a backup plan in an emergency.

Dont fly over your head. As in your personal ability.

Thought it might be interesting to get others "rules of the road".

Ben Cardon
http://www.CardonAerialImaging.com
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07-24-2006 02:25 AM  14 years ago
kaptkaos

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Miami FL

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what are the rules as far as flying near airports?If you give a Chimp a gun, and the Chimp shoots, DONT BLAME THE CHIMP!!!!
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07-24-2006 05:47 AM  14 years ago
fitenfyr

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Port Orchard, Washington

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what are the rules as far as flying near airports?
Don't.

If you have to make sure you spend some time to talk to local pilots and the controlling agency for the airport to ensure you stay out of the way of full scale aircraft traffic.
Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...
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07-24-2006 05:55 AM  14 years ago
KC

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WA

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AP thankfully has no governing body in the US, but if it did, AMA rules would most likely be effect....no more than 400 agl within 3 miles.

common sense would dictate you find the runway directions, observe the wind and landing pattern, and steer clear.
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07-24-2006 06:03 AM  14 years ago
fitenfyr

rrProfessor

Port Orchard, Washington

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AP thankfully has no governing body in the US, but if it did, AMA rules would most likely be effect....no more than 400 agl within 3 miles.
Well not to stir up an old pot, but there is a governing body for what we do it is called the FAA.

The AMA guidelines are a great place to start, but a little conversation will go a long way in making sure you don't get the attention of the governing body.
Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...
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07-24-2006 01:01 PM  14 years ago
Torsten

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Germany

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Ben,

dont fly your helicoter through the sun. makes for 3 to 5 looong seconds till you see it again.

dont land on angled terrain

fly only with batteries that come directly from the charger

better to ditch in a tree than on a roof

still working on the rest.

PS forgot one.

dont fly heli no 1 with heli no 4´s program in the tx
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07-24-2006 06:51 PM  14 years ago
CRJBenny

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Pocatello, ID

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Torsten,
I learned the dont land on a slope rule as well. Its fine until the rotor head spools down and it starts to slide down hill.

Thanks,Good one to know.
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07-24-2006 07:02 PM  14 years ago
CRJBenny

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Pocatello, ID

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I remembered a couple more.

If you have to fly on bare dirt, land in a different spot than the take off. It helps keep the dirt down by useing an undisturbed dirt surface.

With tempature and or altitude changes between flights make sure you let the engine warm up sufficiently to check the mixture before venturing to a spec on the horizon position. You can wind up being in an excessive rich or lean situation. It can be a damn long way back to the Landing zone with a ratty running engine.
Its easy to get in a hurry.

Ben Cardon
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07-24-2006 07:35 PM  14 years ago
kaptkaos

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Miami FL

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So under 400 AGL inside of 3 miles is fine?

I have a potential client right next to a commuter airport, I need to get about 200 ft up. I also have another one right next MIA, in direct line with the main runways....I need to be about 300 ft for that one.
If you give a Chimp a gun, and the Chimp shoots, DONT BLAME THE CHIMP!!!!
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07-24-2006 09:31 PM  14 years ago
fitenfyr

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Port Orchard, Washington

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I would decline the MIA job.

That is inviting some "attention" in my opinion or do it from something other than R/C.
Maybe a blimp?
In light of recent events the FAA is more likely to run you around the block a time or two if you fly too close to an airport especially a Class B airport like MIA doing commercial work.
No matter what I would ensure you talk to the FSDO before you do that job.

The "commuter" airport one should be easily arranged with the tower or airport manager.

There are no hard and fast rules with AP regarding airspace.
It is like the wild west. Whatever "Sheriff" is in town will dictate how you are treated.
Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...
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07-24-2006 09:36 PM  14 years ago
RoadkillBC

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SE Wisconsin

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Don't pee into the wind when you're standing next to your heli. My Joker 2 canopy used to be white...

(sorry)
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07-25-2006 07:08 PM  14 years ago
CRJBenny

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Pocatello, ID

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Dont have your buddy hold the heli by the skids over his head while you do full power run-ups with full throw collective changes to set the mixture.

Cuz his arms will get tired too quick.

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07-25-2006 07:12 PM  14 years ago
CRJBenny

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Pocatello, ID

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Kaptkaos
The job at MIA could be done with a full size heli really easily. Might be worth getting a ride in a full size and including the cost in your price. Just a suggestion

Ben Cardon
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07-26-2006 09:49 PM  14 years ago
KC

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WA

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How I understand the AMA rule book (the last time I read it, not saying when that was), is that 400/3 is ok whatever the class of airfield and, exercising common sense, it is most likely ok with the locals to fly near an airfield if you talk with them first and develop a plan with them.

Jason, I have seen you write that the FAA doesnt care below 1000 agl. I don't think we need to bring them into it if we maintain our glide-slopes, stay below 400 agl, and work with the natives.
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07-26-2006 11:52 PM  14 years ago
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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I live in Upstate NY and there is an AMA chartered club (The Firebirds) that uses a full scale airport for their runway.

http://www(dot)mvfirebirds.com/

Rules:
1 must have designated spotter.
2 Must have scanner operating at all times.
3 Full scale has right of way (no excuses)

rules seem to work.

Ace
Ace
What could be more fun?
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07-27-2006 12:05 AM  14 years ago
fitenfyr

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Port Orchard, Washington

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KC,
Well I think saying that I wrote "the FAA doesn't care below 1000'" is a bit off, but that is beside the point.

The most recent event with the LA Sheriffs incident has brought our whole business into a new light with the FAA.
From what I understand the LA incident was due in part to a close operation to a heavily travelled air traffic route.
Again this is what I was told and can't confirm this directly.
They were operating in the approach path to LAX.

The point is your local single engine kind of airport with a minimal amount of flight operations going on per day is not the same as flying next to an international airport with several hundered operations per day and a high level of security/awareness.
So to say that an airport is an airport regardless of is class is not a good way of approaching the subject in my opinion.

Like I had said. I would turn down the job near MIA or as suggested (and if possible) do it with a full scale.

If somebody chooses to do the job I think it would only be in their best interest to try and do it "by the book" without risking a major incident.
Take all the precautions you can to ensure you are not going to cause an issue.

Frankly do what you want. There are no rules that directly pertain to commercial UAS operations.
If you get the FAA's attention they may or may not have issue with you.
However you will find no "protection" with the AMA's guidelines in this matter.
That has been proven already.
Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...
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07-27-2006 05:48 PM  14 years ago
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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However you will find no "protection" with the AMA's guidelines in this matter.
That has been proven already.
Any flight outside of a chartered AMA club is not sanctioned by the AMA ... Why would they. The AMA pertains to hobby functions not comercial enterprise.

Ace
Ace
What could be more fun?
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07-28-2006 01:33 AM  14 years ago
KC

rrElite Veteran

WA

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chill out J

I mentioned the AMA guidelines because there is next to no difference between AP and hobby to 99% of the world.

AMA's rule is a guideline and one that is adequate for a model heli without a camera on it, adequate also for one with a camera on it.

thats a big duh.

and we all know AMA wont cover anything off of their sacred grounds, but this is a guideline, as the original question asked; 'are their rules?"

enough punditry, the AMA book says nothing about 400/3 wrt airfield classes. I am not making that up.
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07-28-2006 04:36 AM  14 years ago
fitenfyr

rrProfessor

Port Orchard, Washington

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KC,
No problem here.
I just see this time and time again with regard to "mixing" the AMA guidelines and rules with what actually pertains to commercial operations.
Just trying to keep up the "education" process that I think is so important to the whole issue of commercial operations and the FAA.

Actually there is a big difference with regard to the AMA guidelines and most of the line of sight AP work.

That being the area of operations.

For the most part the AMA assumes that someone operating under their guidelines will do so at an approved field. This suggests some amount of airspace deconfliction by the very nature of an established field.
When AC 91-57 was written in the 80's I am sure it was done so with the intent of guiding clubs and members in establishing flying sites.
Not so much for the purpose of one "lone wolf" out flying in a field although I am sure that was also brought into play.

I had an interesting conversation today while scouting a job with an ex FAA designated examiner.
He basically agreed with me that the FAA will certainly try to enforce manned aircraft regulation on you if you do something to get their dander up, but in the end they will have very little to stand on if taken to court.
Course it should be our goal to avoid that whole issue rather than push the line in my opinion.
Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...
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