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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-AlignOther › Roll, Flip or Loop Next?
07-20-2006 10:34 PM  14 years ago
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Just Chris

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Santa Clara CA

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Roll, Flip or Loop Next?
I really love my trex se and I would like to add a very simple maneuver to my hover and circuit routine. What would be a reasonable move for a beginner to try, roll, loop..flip? (What is the difference between a flip and a loop anyway? Is a flip done from a hover?) I have full cyclic response ~6-7 degrees, as well as +/-10 on pitch. Idle up 100-95-80-95-100. How high should I be to start a maneuver and what move should it be? I was thinking of trying a roll from a hover about 20-30 from the ground just because it would be tail in for the full roll as I thing that would be the easiest. What do you think?
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07-20-2006 10:52 PM  14 years ago
Planehazza

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Newcastle, England

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Im only hovering, and cant even do ciruits or 'controlled' FF yet, but I think you should do whatever you want to do next lol.

A lot of ppl here do stationary flips first I think, try that.
As far as they know, I already had it!
T-Rex 450 XL HDE with metal upgrades
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07-20-2006 11:22 PM  14 years ago
dg512055

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Union City, TN

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I've been flying less capable .30 size heli's for years but never had anything as capable as the Trex. I found that loops are very easy with Trex. Get some speed and pull elevator, let off the collective at the top for a short pause and then put it back positive as it decsends the back of the loop. Rolls are very simple too. Get some speed up about 100 ft. Flying level push full left aileron, careful not to introduce any elevator with it. As it begins to go inverted, pull some negative pitch, but don't panick and yank it to full negative as this is not needed. Be sure to hold the full aileron until it is back upright and feed the positive collective back in. It will be simple once you pull it off a couple of times. My 3rd trick is the front flip. The key to all of them is to not panick on the negative collective. Just go for it.
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07-20-2006 11:25 PM  14 years ago
Thomashome

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West Sussex UK

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Start off with stall turns then once you've mastered them carry on over the top for a loop, just make sure your throttle curves are set up first and that you have some neg pitch
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07-20-2006 11:26 PM  14 years ago
docjoe

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Stockton, CA United States

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Nose in might be the next step. If you're proficient at forward flight, figure of 8s and nose in, then you're likely proficient in most orientations. Also, practicing large circles is also good. Once you're comfortable, do loops and rolls. I would start really high and do loops (not necessarily stationary loops). The stationary loops require a little more collective management. Your setup sounds good for loops and rolls. I would go up fairly high. 100 feet sounds good. You will need time to bail out, especially if you lose orientation.

Make sure you're comfortable with these maneuvers on the SIM before trying in the real world. Expect to crash but that's all part of learning.

Joe
Joe
We haven't seen Colonel Angus around these parts for years!
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07-21-2006 12:32 AM  14 years ago
Hummingbird3D

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California

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I'd have to agree with docjoe, because when you get to your next BIG manuever, there could be a chance that your heli faces a totally different direction than what you intended it to. If that were to happen, then you'll be up the creek because you won't have the mind to stick skill needed to continue the flight. This will definitely soil your pants.

If you can start doing stall turns comfortably, then you can throw in a flip at the top.
Good luck and go only as fast as your skills allow; it's gonna get expensive.
Fly It Like You're On The Simulator!
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07-21-2006 01:50 AM  14 years ago
Hoverdown3K

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Rochester, New York

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Sim first and then Loop for real.-= I know there is Money in RC helicopters. I put it there=-
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07-21-2006 01:51 AM  14 years ago
Just Chris

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Santa Clara CA

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Thanks for all the tips guys. I was thinking of trying a stall turn but aside from my own heli's I have never seen one in flight so I don't think I know what a stall turn is Is it when you are in FF, start a loop, go 1/4 of the way till at a knife edge (0 pitch), pirouette 180 then pull out with nose-up elevator and collective pitch? If I am describing a stall turn correctly then I would think that a stall turn is harder that just full left/right cyclic and collective management when momentarily inverted while performing a roll. Not only that, starting a new move tail-in and finishing nose-in could become disorientating to some, including myself. Does this not make sense? On a side note the only simulator I have is a blade cx... great for orientation practice!
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07-21-2006 03:14 AM  14 years ago
Edge

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Indianapolis, IN

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My two cents:

Recommend you get comfortable with all orientation hover, to include nose in. Get comfortable with FF slow and fast, to include slow circuits both left and right, as well as figure eights. Use the sim to get all this down. Once you are comfortable with all this, stall turns easy. Simply get some speed in FF pull nore up, as speed bleeds off, swing tail 180 and pull up on downward path in opposite direction. Once you can do this proceed to loops and rolls, up high, two or three mistakes up. If you can do them on sim, you should get into them fairly easy. Main recommendation, do them on sim first till you know control inputs and orientation. Lastly, when trying something new with the bird, plan and keep a "bail out maneouver" in the back of your head. If things screw up, this can help keep you from freezing up and watching the bird screw itself into the ground!
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07-21-2006 03:25 AM  14 years ago
hvsumfun

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Sunnyvale, Ca.

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Hey Chris, I'm in Sunnyvale, super close! We have the same set up.
PM me if you ever want someone to fly with.
I've been at it for a few months now and have learned most of the basic manuevers..

My 2 cents... The loop/flip is the best thing to start with. As long as it makes it all the way around, doesn't matter what you call it.

Start high and you'll surely make it. Looks like you've got it set up well so go for it!!
TRexSE Silver, ALIGN 430L3550 ,13t, Quark 33a , Spektrum DX6, GY401 + HDS-877, HS56x3, Apex 2100s.
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07-21-2006 06:19 AM  14 years ago
Escrima1

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CA

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Just Chris, you can do something similar to the stall turn and keep the same orientation. Instead of turning the tail, just let the heli slide back a bit and slowly push the cyclic forward slowly as the heli gets down to a level you are comfortable with. This is called the tail slide. A step up from this move would be to just flip the heli just before it slides down. As mentioned before, make sure you get close to or at 0 degrees pitch at the top of the move.I'm new, where is the reset button on this radio?
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07-21-2006 04:03 PM  14 years ago
jcrack_corn

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End of Time

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i recommend forward flip first.....this thing does forward flips like a bat out of hell....loops can be tricky for someone just learing FFF becuase you will likely start off doing a loop, loose all momentum, and end up doing a backwards flip, lol....

unless you have plank experience, then the loop first for sure, no difference.
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do it inverted
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07-21-2006 04:10 PM  14 years ago
caseyjholmes

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Portland, Oregon

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My first inversion was something of a stationary roll. I found the tail (and the elevator)a bit tricky to control at first doing it this way, so I then went to doing loops from FFF.

If you can nose in and FFF, you are ready. Get inverted sim practice FFF
down too, so you don't hit yourself coming out of the inverted loop.

Get up some speed, keep the heli way up there, dip the nose a bit, then snap back on the ele while lowering pitch up to 0* when the heli is inverted. Apply more pitch as it comes out. a degree of neg while inverted can help sometimes to travel inverted a bit longer before you pull out of the loop.
dg512055 has it right..
You are going to find the TREX has a high "flip" rate.
First be sure your swash wont hit the main shaft or main shaft collar before you flip it. This will cause binding and boggage.
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07-21-2006 04:53 PM  14 years ago
dct

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San Angelo TX.

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Question,,, if you start all this 3D flying,,, you could hit your tail boom... And down you go!!!! So,,, how to check your feather shaft for the right stiffness??? To help keep boom strikes for happening??? Using 325 wood pro????? I have been reading about a lot of helicopter falling out of the sky with boom strikes...!!**Now doing Forward Flight And EASY 3d! And having a Ball !!**
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07-21-2006 07:14 PM  14 years ago
AlanR8

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High Crompton, Manchester. UK

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Take a look at my Website below and follow the link "Aerobatics". There's a description of the basic moves with stick positions and possible outcomes!

I left nose in hovering until late in the day and had to make an effort last year to come back to it. BUT, FF nose in is easier and you pick up your nose in orientation that way.

If you want to go for it, I'd suggest a loop first because it's the least technical manoeuvere of the lot. Just DON'T yank back on the cyclic, ease it back slowly from FFF at a safe speed and height. Yes, back the collective off a bit as you go over the top but a loop is not a negative pitch move, unless you make it one!

Good luck
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