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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › Hyper 50 with "pitting"
07-19-2006 09:00 AM  14 years ago
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tbcseod

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Denver, Co USA

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Hyper 50 with "pitting"
Hi all, today I pulled my engine to replace a clutch and after opening up the back plate to get the nut and clutch off I decided to open up the top end "just to have a peek". After opening it up and noting a light tan color I noticed some fine pitting in the piston - then I found some on the head. At first I thought it was some kind of build up from the oil but after wiping it all down I found they were actual pits. they are only on the "bottom" (when engine is in heli) 1/10th of the piston and head so i am assuming that its from the oil and such inside the engine while it sits between flying weekends?

Has anyone else had this issue? is it "normal" the engine is rather new - maybe 3-4 months old and about 6-7 gallons (wildcat 30%) through it.

Its runs like a beast but now I am a bit worried about the longevity of it at this rate........

any advice of help would be greatly appreciated.
OK, so it won't fly any better but it looks damn good on my shelf. Bling-Bling!
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07-19-2006 11:41 AM  14 years ago
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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You may be on the lean side, richen the engine up some. ChrisChris
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07-19-2006 01:55 PM  14 years ago
Doug

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Port Saint Luice Florida....

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That is either "fod" (foreign object damage) or "dom" (domestic object damage) I would check on your rear bearing. If ok then you may have ingested something through the carb,or, you had a glow plug element liberate in the past.
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07-19-2006 10:02 PM  14 years ago
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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The reason I said richen it up was you may be just starting to detonate. I have never seen ingested objects limit themself to a specific area of the piston and head, but I suppose it may be possible. ChrisChris
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07-19-2006 10:28 PM  14 years ago
tbcseod

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Denver, Co USA

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the thought process of being lean makes sense - except I have always tried to run a tad rich (using the back plate touch method) I have always tried to keep the back plate "warm" to the touch - nothing that would ever make you remove your finger but not cold either.

I already reassembled the motor and put it back into service (in the bird), perhaps I should pull it again and get some pictures to post. Like I knew I should have done when I had it out the 1st time)
OK, so it won't fly any better but it looks damn good on my shelf. Bling-Bling!
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07-20-2006 12:25 AM  14 years ago
Escrima1

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CA

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Don't give it anymore greasy foods anymore, it's breaking out.

Seriously though, this is a concern with those who have nitro cars/trucks when they haven't run their engines for a week plus. The fuel residue still in the engine will cause pitting, it acts like a corrosive. There is after-run oil that is used. It's recommended after a days run, which I do for mine. Some people say that you'll be ok within a week.
When getting into helis I was surprised that after-run oil isn't used on a regular basis like with the guys who run on 4-wheels. Maybe it's cause it is somewhat inconvienient to put up into the carb of helis. The weather there in AZ may also contribute to your engine showing this problem faster, so get some oil.
I'm new, where is the reset button on this radio?
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07-20-2006 12:30 AM  14 years ago
tbcseod

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Denver, Co USA

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makes sense - I dont get to go every weekend to fly so its usally every 2-3 weeks at best it seems

But thats what I was wondering if it has someting to do with the oil/fuel residue (expecially once I noted that it was on the down side - where the oil would pool while setting)- I had never heard anyone saying anything about it before so i was wondering if something wierd was happening or if it was a "common" thing.
OK, so it won't fly any better but it looks damn good on my shelf. Bling-Bling!
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07-20-2006 12:45 AM  14 years ago
Escrima1

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CA

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With nitro vehicles it is common if you don't use the oil. Engines, like my Novarossi are at $300 +, so spending $7.00 is a prudent thing to do to keep my investment going. A lot of the guys I fly with think it is so inconvient to put the oil in the carb of a heli, so they live with this potential problem of pitting in their engines.
You could try putting the oil thru the fuel inlet side and crank the engine, this would suck the oil in the crankcase.
I'm new, where is the reset button on this radio?
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07-20-2006 05:38 AM  14 years ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Don't give it anymore greasy foods anymore, it's breaking out.

Seriously though, this is a concern with those who have nitro cars/trucks when they haven't run their engines for a week plus. The fuel residue still in the engine will cause pitting, it acts like a corrosive. There is after-run oil that is used. It's recommended after a days run, which I do for mine. Some people say that you'll be ok within a week.
When getting into helis I was surprised that after-run oil isn't used on a regular basis like with the guys who run on 4-wheels. Maybe it's cause it is somewhat inconvienient to put up into the carb of helis. The weather there in AZ may also contribute to your engine showing this problem faster, so get some oil
What a serious load of BS. I've got engines that have sat idle for months and years with no afterrun oil and there is no pitting of the head or piston. You don't need afterrun oil with modern fuels and besides, it's a PIA to try and get the oil into the engine after a days flying, so I don't bother.

The best way to avoid the pitting is to not run the engine lean.

TM
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07-20-2006 01:23 PM  14 years ago
tbcseod

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Denver, Co USA

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I don't know so I am just asking here - but if its a lean condition wouldn't the pitting be acrost the face of the piston and not just in a very distinctive and limited area of the piston?OK, so it won't fly any better but it looks damn good on my shelf. Bling-Bling!
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07-20-2006 02:11 PM  14 years ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Post a photo.

TM
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07-20-2006 02:15 PM  14 years ago
tbcseod

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Denver, Co USA

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I'll try to pull the engine this evening and open it back up to get photo's (I knew I shoudl have done that before putting it back together :P

I'll upload them asap
OK, so it won't fly any better but it looks damn good on my shelf. Bling-Bling!
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07-20-2006 05:16 PM  14 years ago
airthumper

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Sacramento, CA

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Yo TMoore , that pocket full of BS is not a pocket full of BS when you go to a roar (rc car/truck) race and see the racers use the oil in their engines. A lot is invested in those engines. You just might be lucky on that cheap engine you have.I Fly So Good: BECAUSE I'M SPONSORED! ...what's this bill here?
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07-20-2006 05:51 PM  14 years ago
Hummingbird3D

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California

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Man what's with all the attitude here? This guy tbcseod is only looking for an answer, not someone blowing off someone else' opinion. If you don't like a response ya don't need to blow a valve.

Yes, use the oil if you aren't going to fly for awhile. Consider that you have about $200 into a hyper 50 or $300 or so in a YS or OS 91, why not keep your engines in good condition if there is a way to? The after-run oil helps in that regard.

I've been to some races at a roar event too and yes the racers do use the oil. If it is too inconvenient for you to put the oil in, so be it, its your prerogative. What can it hurt?
Fly It Like You're On The Simulator!
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07-20-2006 10:10 PM  14 years ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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We ain't talking about RC cars. This a completely different application. Just the difference in oil content alone between car and heli fuel is the difference here, not to mention that you can actually get to the engine in a car to apply afterrun oil, which proves to be just about impossible in a heli.

No one is blowing a valve, I call them like I see them.
You just might be lucky on that cheap engine you have.
Dude, I've got 4 Hypers, 4 C-Specs and no pits.

TM
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07-20-2006 10:14 PM  14 years ago
nivlek

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Norfolk England

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I've got engines that have sat idle for months and years with no afterrun oil and there is no pitting of the head or piston
I've left some for over a decade with no ill effect ! Must be that lovely castor oil .
At the end of the day , it gets dark .
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07-21-2006 08:42 AM  14 years ago
tbcseod

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Denver, Co USA

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pictures
hopefully these are clear enough to make it out. They are really small but want to ask what they are from before they become a "major issue". Again they are on the "bottom (as setting in the heli) side" and the heli dose usually sit 2-3 weeks at a time, can't recall any filaments coming loose in the past - suppose it is possible though as I have had a couple plugs go bad and possibly one separated and I just didn't look close enough.

OK, so it won't fly any better but it looks damn good on my shelf. Bling-Bling!
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07-21-2006 02:05 PM  14 years ago
SPB

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Athens - Greece

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I'd dare to say that has nothing to do with after run oil.

I only use after run oil when I am not going to use the heli for more than 2 months that means almost never. So far my engines are perfect.

Did you ever blow a glow plug?

I also had same marks on my Hyper once when I blow a plug because of a lean run. They are caused from the plug element that hits the warm piston surface.

Sotiris
myhelis.com Flying Team
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07-21-2006 02:16 PM  14 years ago
SubSailor

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Austin, TX.

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tbcseod,
If I'm looking at that picture correctly that does not look like corrosion to me. Looks like some type of foriegn object got in there and did the damage. Have you ever had an element fail in one of your plugs?
John

PS-I agree with Mr Moore here. I feel like afterrun oil is a waste of time now days with modern fuels. Any remaining fuel will most likely evaporate leaving behind the oils. Any time I take my engines apart they are saturated with oil.
Fromeco Field Rep.
A day without sunshine is, well.., alot like night time.
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07-21-2006 02:38 PM  14 years ago
Doug

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Port Saint Luice Florida....

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Glow plug element damage

OBTW take a look at the plug in that head now
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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › Hyper 50 with "pitting"
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