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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-AlignOther › Todays Trex SE setup video..
07-19-2006 01:31 AM  14 years ago
clive45

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NSW Australia

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??
GEEEE's your too late Willy and I did that and gave it away as it was so perfect we had nothing to do but fly.
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07-19-2006 01:42 AM  14 years ago
funkykeys

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Roswell, GA

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Willy,

I'm going to assume you've never tried a 401/9650 combo on the tail...

Scott
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07-19-2006 02:12 AM  14 years ago
3D WASP

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So that tail works better than the belt drive with 401/9650? That's amazing, why is it that no good 3d flyer flies this "beltless tail?" The 9650 is fairly heavy but its mounted on the front of the boom so it doesn't effect cg nearly as much as your "tail motor." Tell me how does that tail perfrom in piro flips? I don't know what your definition of a cowboy is in New Zealand, but here in the States I couldn't be further from being a cowboy. There he goes again with his lame childish comments....im positive theres more to come. You know from the sounds of your superior mechanics, and quality control, you willy, should make your own helicopter. All I hear is whining from you why is that?Timing is everything
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07-19-2006 02:22 AM  14 years ago
3D WASP

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I just wouldnt waste my time on an inferior design. My tail is solid as is, and I have had no problems with it.
Here we go a guy that can 3d like a church going christian
Whatever that means. I can do some 3d, enough to know when a tail is solid or not, and my hunch is that your "superior tail" wouldn't cut it. Now what that has to do with christianity and going to church is beyond me. I checked what I did and the person who refered to a cowboy is....fill in the blank, I'd be kicked off here if I said it.
Timing is everything
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07-19-2006 02:27 AM  14 years ago
smakd_up

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acworth, ga

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i don't see why people get so upset over what someone elses setup is. i've only had my trex for about 4 mo. and i come on here to learn tips/tricks. instead, there's preposterous tales of 5k headspeed on one hand, someone mad about willy's tail motor on the other. i couldn't care less if he uses a wind-up rubber band motor on his tail. he has offered more advice that ive found useful than b.s. stories about doing super-duper-macaroni and cheese flip kicks w/5000 rpm's.....who is gonna benefit from thatIf at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.
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07-19-2006 02:28 AM  14 years ago
smakd_up

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I just wouldnt waste my time on an inferior design
so dont.
topic solved
If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.
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07-19-2006 02:35 AM  14 years ago
3D WASP

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I have never claimed this to be better at 3d
Inferior is the stock tail on the trex!
So it can't do 3d but the Stock rex tail that can do 3d is inferior....interesting.
are you saying that someone that cant 3d(piro flips,inverted funnels etc) doesnt know how to set up a heli?
Nope not at all, my Dad can set up a heli on par with the very best of em, and he can hardly hover the thing.
Timing is everything
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07-19-2006 02:38 AM  14 years ago
clive45

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??
I bet thats because you wont let him fly as you are flying all the time
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07-19-2006 03:12 AM  14 years ago
caseyjholmes

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Portland, Oregon

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Not to start the fighting again, but I'd have to agree with wasp on this one.
So that tail works better than the belt drive with 401/9650? That's amazing, why is it that no good 3d flyer flies this "beltless tail?" The 9650 is fairly heavy but its mounted on the front of the boom so it doesn't effect cg nearly as much as your "tail motor." Tell me how does that tail perfrom in piro flips? I don't know what your definition of a cowboy is in New Zealand, but here in the States I couldn't be further from being a cowboy. There he goes again with his lame childish comments....im positive theres more to come. You know from the sounds of your superior mechanics, and quality control, you willy, should make your own helicopter. All I hear is whining from you why is that?
Now you are the cowboy willy... In your own definition. I'm sure that tail didn't go right the first time ey? I like it, don't get me wrong, it's innovative and something I would think about trying myself. But I would not rip you appart for trying it. I'd imagine the CG didn't improve too much with the modification though.

While I Was out flying again, I went to pick up the rest of the parts for my Trex 600. I did also pick up a ultra deans connector just for you willy. However, my trex is flying fine on the micro deans with the cc35 and the Mega.
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07-19-2006 03:40 AM  14 years ago
caseyjholmes

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Portland, Oregon

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No large helis at the park for me. I've been that route a few years ago and a stray dog came running up and I couldn't land my raptor. I had to walk over and ask somone to hold the dog while I landed. Thats a newbie mistake one makes when they first buy a large helicopter. That was also a looong time ago.

Although the micro deans is rated at 10 amps, it can actually handle more than a 4 cell lipo can put out at 25C 2100mah. The rating is for maximum current flow of a given current size. It will handle higher current, but won't let the full power through. You will need a thicker guage connector, which is why I will agree with you on this one thing and install ultra deans. But, the helicopter is flying great on micro deans right now without cutout, tail slides or heat.
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07-19-2006 04:46 AM  14 years ago
3D WASP

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So it can't do 3d but the Stock rex tail that can do 3d is inferior....interesting
get real tosser!, you are now talking thru the hole in your arse.
How is that talking out my arse? That's pure logic! Wow is all I can say to that. How could you possibly say that? you do speak english and understand logic right?
my Dad can set up a heli on par with the very best of em, and he can hardly hover the thing.
well! you actually have to be able to fly the thing, hovering doesnt actually count. sorry!(how can you tell the tail is working under stress?) at least my minimal flying skills allow that.
This is where I come in
Is it the wasp or the bee that dies when it has used its sting.any minute now
Its the bee, and im not going any where. I think its about time someone bugs you, as you bug everyone else.
i,d say daddy is the one that fixes the heli,s , maybe the wasp cant set one up.
Sure I can, but he does a better job and enjoys it more.
I bet you use negative expo as well lamer
-20% to be exact, thats just to smooth it out, i don't need it. why does that make me lame? Just cuz you dont use it and you have minimal flying skills? (admitted by yourself) I'm going to stop making points here, everytime I do, your quick to pull out an insult or something else childish. Giving info on set up is fine for you, but please please don't mention anything about flying, like expo or dual rates, as you dont have any skill or knowledge in this area. I (and im sure many others) would greatly appreciate it.
Timing is everything
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07-19-2006 05:09 AM  14 years ago
red_sash

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Canberra, Australia

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Wow, what a turnaround.

Not on anyones side, just an observation, but it went from Willy pursuing Casey and dissecting / critically analysing his set up, to Willy having to defend his setup.

Now you're now more or less in the same position that Casey was Willy.
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07-19-2006 05:35 AM  14 years ago
red_sash

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And for what it is worth Willy, loved your first words which were "not even close".

Whoever is pursuing who, at least you kept your composure and confidence in your response to me.

Now Wasp, you did a good job bringing in another viewpoint, so not directed at you but.........

at one stage, didn't they have a problem with Wasps in NZ Willy?
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07-19-2006 05:55 AM  14 years ago
3D WASP

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Wow, what a turnaround.

Not on anyones side, just an observation, but it went from Willy pursuing Casey and dissecting / critically analysing his set up, to Willy having to defend his setup.

Now you're now more or less in the same position that Casey was Willy.
Good observation, exactly what I was going for.
lame because you admit it! you dont need itso why do you use it, thats just plain lame jane.[quote]
As mentioned before to smooth things out and take the twitch away. Perhaps you should give it a go. When have I ever blown up something to see if it worked? certainly not I.
am about currently looking for some 3d pilots to try out some test units so i guess i wont be sending you one.[quote]
Thank you I would hate to break your heart and tell you no. There is no need to try and improve/work on the align tail using a 401/9650. Plus my focus is going to be on the New Avant Aurora when it comes out. Hey maybe you could design and build a seperate nitro motor to put on the tail....package it up, and sell it as a downgrade.
Timing is everything
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07-19-2006 07:34 PM  14 years ago
funkykeys

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Roswell, GA

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Hey "Last Word Willy"...

That direct drive is pretty tight! That looks like about a 4-5 rps piro rate, which, BTW, is what I get from the 401/9650 dialed down to 80% ATV.

Regarding the servo weight, the 401 actually works better with more weight toward the back of the tail. I have mine mounted about 92 mm from center of servo shaft to center of pitch arm screw, and I'm using the 92 mm HDE elevator linkage rod as the servo push rod. I have absolutely no tail issues whatsoever (other than the vibration I mentioned in my other post, which should hopefully be solved with the Heliup tail system, since the Align rotor sucks).

That said, although your DD tail seems pretty smooth in FF, it's by no means any better than a 401/9650 combo -- just different. I would be interested in seeing how it holds up in extreme 3D, but even so, it's a moot point, since you're not at that flying ability yet. If, when you get there, you find that the DD tail doesn't hold, you'll know what setup does.
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07-19-2006 09:55 PM  14 years ago
funkykeys

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Roswell, GA

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Rocket speed on the tail isn't needed for 3D flying, and on the contrary, will be harder to fly if the piro rate is too fast. A 2-3 rps piro rate is plenty fast enough; anything faster than that is simply overkill (my setup included).

The most important factor is how well the tail holds between the gyro and servo, which is mostly dependent on gyro gain/speed and tail servo speed. As long as the tail stops exactly where you tell it to stop in any piro orientation, and the servo moves to exactly where the gyro tells it to with minimal lag (to avoid having the gyro continually overcompensate to find a neutral point), you're game.

The thing that weirds me out about the concept of a DD tail goes back to how "loose" the Blade CX tail is. Since the motor is only speeding up and slowing down to set the yaw, I don't see how it can possibly be as crisp as pitching the tail blades at a constant rpm. In all fairness, your DD motor looks a hell of a lot faster and more powerful, but the physics are still the same.

We can discuss this hypothetically until the ocean level drops to a point between New Zealand and Australia where they meet again, but I'll believe it when I see a qualified 3D pilot beat the p*ss out of your heli while keeping perfect control.
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07-19-2006 10:13 PM  14 years ago
funkykeys

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Roswell, GA

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Ahhhhhh... my bad. I didn't notice that the blades pitched! I've been humbled!

One question: under load, the mains will slow when you do fast punches on collective. If the tail keeps an unchanged, governed speed, it'll yaw clockwise as the mains slow down. What prevents this?
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07-19-2006 10:14 PM  14 years ago
3D WASP

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I'll believe it when I see a qualified 3D pilot beat the p*ss out of your heli while keeping perfect control.
Agreed, this would prove it to me. But still at that point why go through all the trouble when the stock tail works like that already.
With this tail system you can replace the whole tail at the field with two wires, a spare can be pretuned at home so can be done in a minute(a whole new tail in a minute, imagine that).
I think some 3ders my find that usefull in the future.
If your having to replace a tail you probably and most likely have destroyed the heli. I guess it's quicker than changing a stock tail, but the rest of the heli is done for so you gotta rebuild the whole thing not just the tail.
Timing is everything
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07-19-2006 10:59 PM  14 years ago
funkykeys

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Roswell, GA

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Willy...

You got sidetracked. See my question above...
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07-20-2006 12:28 AM  14 years ago
3D WASP

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(can you set the gov mode on your tail)
Nope the Belt automatically does that for me, when headspeed drops, the tail slows down. All the governor it needs. 401/9650 on a stock SE Tail, you might be able to match it's performance one day after much R&D, however I don't think you will improve on its overall performance. But hey by all means pursue what you set out to do. Personally I would just spend all that time improving on my flying skills.
trex is out if you are into serious 3d
You've never seen Alan szabo fly the 450SE have you? If that's not hard 3d, I don't know what is. Looks to me like he makes it perform like a 90 sized bird.
Timing is everything
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