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07-17-2006 06:53 PM  14 years ago
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flaming blades

rrApprentice

hertfordshire, UK

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Hatori pipes
I am familiar with the sb pipes such as the sb 16 sb17 and sb 18. What is the hatori 938 equivelent to if any of them?
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07-17-2006 07:54 PM  14 years ago
mrNoodles

rrProfessor

Borlänge, Sweden

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None, the SB series is a US only thing.
#937 (YS version of #938) is longer than the SB16-FH.
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07-18-2006 02:41 PM  14 years ago
Dr Lodge

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Guildford, Surrey - UK

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938 is similar to the SB-17, not quite the same but much cheaper. I'm weighing up whether to go the SB-17 or 938 route for my OS91/OMI enginesVibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200
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07-18-2006 02:49 PM  14 years ago
ESWLFSE

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Liberty Hill, TX

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I thought the 938 = SB-18.

Does anyone have any feedback on the Funtech 383???
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07-18-2006 03:11 PM  14 years ago
Dr Lodge

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Guildford, Surrey - UK

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I believe 937, 938, SB-16/17/18 are all similar but slightly different, exactly what the difference is I'm not so sure.

937 and SB-16 are suited to YS
938 and SB-17 are suited to OS
SB-18 is suited to OS and rappie 90 I heard, but not sure if that's purely a physical difference in the dimensions of the pipe, or the different gear ratio the Rappie 90 has to say a Freya or other near 8:1 machines?

TMoore stated the new OS91SZ is best suited to the SB-18 so I guess it has a different tune to the SB-17 pipe.
Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200
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07-18-2006 03:38 PM  14 years ago
RockDoc

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Middlesbrough, England

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The 938 works a treat on my OS91SZH in my Raptor 90, the SB versions are just too damned expensive in the UK!

D.
Sponsored by Barclaycard!

www.clevelandheli.co.uk
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07-18-2006 03:50 PM  14 years ago
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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the SB18 is the same tuned section as the SB17 but the muffler section is longer. DOUGYOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED
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07-18-2006 05:02 PM  14 years ago
Dr Lodge

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Guildford, Surrey - UK

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So do you mean the length to first internal baffle is the same, but the second chamber is longer? What benefit/difference would that make?Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200
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07-18-2006 05:28 PM  14 years ago
ESWLFSE

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Liberty Hill, TX

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Makes more sense to me that the last digit would correspond ie. SB-18 = 938 and SB-17 = 937.
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07-18-2006 05:43 PM  14 years ago
DS 8717

rrProfessor

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This is what eric larson stated,he was the one that helped in the development of these 2 mufflers. What would the longer muffler section do?it make it it quieter (what the muscle pipe needs). He uses the shorter SB17 because it is shorter and lighter. DOUGYOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED
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07-19-2006 08:58 AM  14 years ago
Anthony555

rrNovice

France

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Richard from HatoriUSA told me there is no equivalent to the SB-xx.

I use the SB-17 with my OS SZ PS, it is smooth.

Anthony
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12-07-2006 07:10 PM  14 years ago
Krunder

rrNovice

Denmark

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http://www.mhm-modellbau.de/hatori/HAT939.jpg
http://www4.mailordercentral.com/he...p?number=126678

Can the new 939 be compared to SB18FH?
Or should I by the real thing?

It would be nice with some measurements

Thanks
Krunder
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12-08-2006 01:33 AM  14 years ago
jadams

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East coast USA

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Since we are talking Hatori, where do you find a current list of all their pipes? I have found some old listings that don't include all of the 2 piece pipes. Also does a SB-15 fit on the OS .50??
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12-08-2006 09:53 AM  14 years ago
mrNoodles

rrProfessor

Borlänge, Sweden

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Richard from HatoriUSA told me there is no equivalent to the SB-xx.
Yes he usually does that, everything that he sells is the No.1
I wonder what HatoriJapan thinks of such statemenst..

jadams
You can find a list of the non US (SB) mufflers here:
http://www.hatori-models.co.jp/
/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.
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12-08-2006 04:09 PM  14 years ago
Jerry Sudimick

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Connecticut

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This is really a simple concept that many people fail to understand.

Rich Sabin is the US importer of Hatori products. His business is appropriately named HatoriUSA (go figure)

Rich has his own group of pilots that he works with to develop optimum products. You may ask - why does he have his own group of pilots?

Well - because over in Japan - the market is different. 3D isn't as big in Japan as it is in other parts of the world - especially the USA. The USA is filled with all of us "tool time tims" who want more HP and durability. This would allow us to abuse the equipment as much as we want- to the point of breaking it- while flying mostly sloppy 3D. At least we go home happy. In Japan they prefer the F3C style (although 3D is growing) Therefore, Hatori Japan's test foundation is based on what their pilots like to do - and I can tell you - you won't see a Japanese version of a US funfly like IRCHA SE, or even IRCHA.

Rich works with Jason Krause, Todd Bennett, Eric Larson, and Duncan Osbourne to develop pipes that work best with popular equipment in the USA/UK in a 3D application. That means the pipes are tested and tweaked at 3D gear ratios, with 3D blades and loading, with high nitro fuel...etc etc.

Having witnessed and been a part of the process - this is a give and take. Rich and Mr Hatori have known each other and had a business relationship for years. Rich gives Mr Hatori an objective and a sample is created. This sample is sent to Rich. Rich sends it to team pilots. They fly it. The pilots request changes. Rich contacts Mr Hatori. Changes are made. A new sample is sent. In the case of the SB17 and SB18 - this took place many times. The creation of a sample and the change of a sample is not free. Cost is incurred to Rich each time this happens.

Once the design is finalized, Rich instructs Mr Hatori to put the pipe into production. This pipe design belongs to HatoriUSA - because Rich is the one responsible for the changes and specifications.

Mr Hatori would not turn around and take Rich's design or spec and slap a 900 series number onto it - and sell it worldwide. Does this really make sense to you folks that Mr Hatori - especially considering cultural background - would do this? SB pipes are constructed in quantities per Hatori USA and sent directly to Hatori USA.

As such - here's the summary.

There is no correlation between the 900 series and the SB series. You can come up with number games conspiracy theories with the number 7 and 8 all you want - it is coincidence.

The 937 and 938 are not the same as the 17 and 18. Hatori USA pipes are Hatori USA pipes - period. The header lengths are different and the internals are different. Nobody has produced evidence otherwise.

Are the physical differences huge? Of course not. How many variations of a shiney silver tube do you think there can possibly be? In the quest to save $10 or $20 USD, guys will see two silver bullets from 10 ft away and say "yep, same thing" This same guy would never run an SB16 on a motor that is meant for the SB18 though....go figure. I'll tell you this - a 15mm difference in header length, or a 5 mm placement of a baffle inside will make a performance difference though.

If you want to save the $10-$20 buying your pipe in Singapore or Taiwan with a 3 digit number - thats fine. But you won't have an SB pipe because it's not an SB pipe. It never will be an SB pipe. It doesnt cross reference to an SB pipe.

Jerry
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12-08-2006 08:59 PM  14 years ago
mrNoodles

rrProfessor

Borlänge, Sweden

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Then maybe Rich should take a look from where the people who asks for a muffler comes from, before telling whats best...

I used both a SB16 and a #937 and the engine felt more powerful with the #937.
/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.
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12-08-2006 10:40 PM  14 years ago
jadams

rrKey Veteran

East coast USA

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mrNoodles, that web site only contains Japans numbers, not the SB series. It would be nice to have the same list of SB Hatori USA pipes, with dimensions and part numbers.
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12-08-2006 10:45 PM  14 years ago
mrNoodles

rrProfessor

Borlänge, Sweden

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I think you can find some info in Ricks, EastcoastExtreme, HeliProz and so on.
Not sure if HatoriUSA has a website up, I did a search but couldnt find anything.
/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.
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12-09-2006 03:56 AM  14 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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This is really a simple concept that many people fail to understand.
Perhaps many people don't understand this because (as far as I know) Rich/Hatori USA doesn't even have a web site (yes, it's almost 2007), he doesn't do any advertising (I get or see most of the hobby magazines out there), and I'm not aware of any R/C web sites (e.g. RR), fun-flies, or events he supports. The only public appearance I've seen him at is the Toledo show and I don't recall seeing him there in 2005. So to most, he's completely unknown.
  
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12-09-2006 10:03 AM  14 years ago
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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Well Mr Sabin sure isnt putting any information on his products like most responsible businesses do. Mabey a web site would be nice so people can be a more informed about what he sells. And from what i have heard the 937 and 938 work very well for 3D. Retailers dont even have the correct picture of the product sometimes,sounds like pretty piss poor support if you ask me. Doesn't Rich know about the internet?DOUGYOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED
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