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07-24-2006 03:47 AM  14 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Good Catch Guy's - Got some stuff to try ! As described >
My stuff is ready to test and is as follows;

Earlier I mentioned a material which is a inert base mineral jell with a fabric back much like a gummy worm - and just as wiggley / wiggley { I figuired away too attach the stuff !!!}

I used industrial adhesive backed velcro to the carbon plate and to the fabric side of the jell. Fabric down - jelly up

Then layed another piece down / jelly side down / fabric up to the in place jelly side up piece .

A Jelly / Jelly sandwich ! with the bottom and top surfaces fabric.

On the top fabric surface I then jumped to industrial velcro to the 401 bottom surface. Total rise in elevation off the carbon plate can't be over about 3/8" I then placed a laytex safety tie over the top of the sandwich.

About the softest suspension of soft mount
I've ever seen of any thing short of floating it in a glyrcerine oil bath.

Strange thing is the jelly to jelly showes no seperation line and seems to be morphing togeather. Kinda like a banana peel suspension
greyeagle
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07-24-2006 04:44 AM  14 years ago
Crazy Horse

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Orlando FL

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WTF
who the samhell left that nanner peeling there???
omg too funny! i guess the canopy is kinda nanner yeller hehe

cant wait to hear how your new mount pans out..it almost seems to me that the zeal gel is a bit to "gelatinous"

youll never guess..the new bergen is starting to look like a heli but i have to decide if i want to go through the trouble of balancing the flywheel
sponsored by generous people that give tips to thier limo driver
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07-24-2006 04:56 AM  14 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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What Trouble ??
Get it off and get down here ! High Point ready with the finest set of machined cones you ever saw !!! HAHAHA !

greyeagle
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07-24-2006 05:06 AM  14 years ago
Crazy Horse

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Orlando FL

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for getting the rotor off does the small wheel with cogs for the pullstart turn off like a nut and then you use a spanner bar to anchor off of and pull the flywheel via the threaded holes?sponsored by generous people that give tips to thier limo driver
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07-25-2006 04:05 AM  14 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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Yup !
The drive lug washer will turn off pretty easy - if you prepare in advance. After removing your recoil, take two 6mm bolts { from X manifold } and hand thread one in to the case. And one in the fly wheel. Not sure - but it takes a bit of fanagilling to find the right posistion. Think at the 10 and 4 O clock. Your going to need to pinch the flywheel with a screw driver laying across them to stop the rotation.

Then look for a small piece of hard wood " oak " 3/4 X 1 which will lay inbetween and act as a turning lever of the aluminum tangs of the drive washer. Get out your pencil type soldering iron and park it on top of the drilled center point location where the crank is drilled. Let it really soak up some heat to loosen the thread locker.

It will spool right off pretty easy if hot with the oak lever and won't leave a burr - ( No pipe wrenches - it's cast aluminum }


Soak it in acetone when fully cooled to dissolve the thread locker - for re installation.
greyeagle
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08-01-2006 04:07 AM  14 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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3 - change's made and to stinking hot and windy to test !
Made 3 changes to chase the jiggle and can't wait to test but it's hot -hot here 95 - 100 , dryer than a popcorn fart , and windy !

Got my Gyro Jelly installed.
Made a heat sheild for the 9254.
Installed a blue thinga ma bob between carb and cylinder.
" Cylinder side gasket was pretty snarkey looking "

Note : 50 to 53mm bolt length for those with a need to know!

greyeagle
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08-03-2006 04:11 AM  14 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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Please Chime In - I Still Got It ! { Results } It's gota be obvious ! Can't find it !
The soft gell gyro mount helped but did not eliminate tail jiggle.

Heat sheild between the Zimmer and 9254 substaintialy reduces temp.

Blue thing a ma bob softened needles alot and much more predictable.

Intial test run no jiggle in norm but in HH it's pretty aggressive really gives the 9254 the business.

Took out the jell mount and went hard mount with one layer of tape got substaintially worse. Put back in jel mount and went from 0 on the 401 to 25 on the delay / didn't help - back to original condition. Took the delay out.


Motor running great / tried to thin it a bit / didn't help - too lean.

Noticed while viewing thru flybar

- at high idle - 0 pitch : servo -it's telegraphing - Jittering substaintially. Intial thoughts were - main shaft , blade balance, flybar. All seems to be running dead true.
Blades are PRO - QUICK 680's

Stopped blade rotation ; idled back up - STILL got the servo chatter telegraphing thing going on !!!! NEED Ideas ! Only thing I can think of is this bird has a Bergen clutch eguipped with a Canfield dynamic balancer " Lead shot in the Hub " I really hate to knock it down just to see if it's the culprit ( Ideas Please ! }

I'm ready to hit it with my Sock Monkey !

greyeagle
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08-03-2006 04:25 AM  14 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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TAKE OUT the canfield balancer!!!
I use the Bergen clutch but do NOT use the canfield balancer. In my machine I found that it causes MORE vibration than LESS with it IN versus OUT! By just removing it the machine smoothed right out.

Take it out (just unscrew the three bolts on the bottom of the fan to remove) and try again and let us know if its any better for you.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 27 3DMax, 4488 flts
Spectra-G Hanson 27 3DMax, 3485 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 2090 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 989 flts
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08-03-2006 04:45 AM  14 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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Look's Like I'm Going in for a Upper GI !!!
Ok sound's good although I hate to do It ! Im going to knock er down !

Her's the flip side or back of the Can field that contain's the little balls that whirl around in their !!! Any body know the screw size for these three socket head counter sunk little buggers or what's in their

???? MICE?

greyeagle
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08-03-2006 05:45 PM  14 years ago
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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looks like the hex is buggered. Take something hard like a dowel and hammer the head to close in the hex. Then use the proper size hex and mammer it in. It may be locktited so heat will help.

Ace
Ace
What could be more fun?
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08-03-2006 08:19 PM  14 years ago
rcrebel

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Michigan

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How are those Quick 680 blades? Is the balance close on them, including chordwise balance? I would try some better blades - just a thought.

rcrebel
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08-04-2006 04:07 AM  14 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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Well I Found the CulPrit Not Good !! But not that bad either -still stinks!
Well during dis assemblie. - During removal of the left aluminum spacer, on the lower left frame engine boss, I found the di cast alumunum threaded boss fractured free from the casting ! The Three point mounting system is a bit weak in design as I also found the the rear dorsal mounting bolt loose!

Have no idea how it occured unless it was the result of when my TNT head decided to TNT during initial original runn up a long time ago . Fracture was hidden all along under the frame mounting and never would have found it until a tear down.

Thanks Ra - I never would of gotten their without your Canfield lead.


Well now I'm looking for a heli -arc and a good set of steady hands or if any have the rear case only for a Z 230.


If the TIG guy's around here a nervous I might even try the ol JB weld and a bit of chopped carbon fiber mixed in

Should have a few pict's upon repair.
greyeagle
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08-04-2006 04:13 AM  14 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Dogbones
Also check the dogbones below the tailboom (black ones). Sometimes those will split in half and cause vibrations. I replaced mine with hexagon style canopy mounts (much stronger than the dogbones) and they never cracked again.

I tend to find these weak points as I tend to fly alot (1575 flights to date) and crash very little. Things tend to get to their end of life before being broken due to a crash with me. I guess that is a good point!

Call AL at Hansons. Bruce was selling crankcases for $25 in the past, maybe one of those will work for you? You can see them on this website, www<dot>bhhanson<dot>com.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 27 3DMax, 4488 flts
Spectra-G Hanson 27 3DMax, 3485 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 2090 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 989 flts
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08-06-2006 06:03 AM  14 years ago
Kona Chopper

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Kailua-Kona, Hawaii USA

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I like the idea of the heat shield for the rudder servo. Kinda makes since being that the servo is like 1 inch from the hot muffler.

Why buy?? when you can borrow and no return
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08-10-2006 04:17 AM  14 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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Got the Heli -Arc Repair Finished !
Repair's to the fractured case came out beautiful ! Photoed prior and after for all to examine, along with fly wheel pulling jig , ect.

Will also provide Macro of a non carbon Belray MC-1 lubricated 230 on Ozark / motor / stay posted up loads this week end! Along with the finial test Q. You be DA JUDGE!
greyeagle
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08-10-2006 05:51 PM  14 years ago
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Got the Heli -Arc Repair Finished !
Repair's to the fractured case came out beautiful ! Photoed prior and after for all to examine, along with fly wheel pulling jig , ect.
Hey buddy, what do you think about normalizing? I hate to see you crack one of those beautiful welds now that you got her fixed. The case is seeing positive and negative pressures every stroke of the engine along with thermal cycles that come and go. The odds are your welder heated that case in an oven before welding to try to prevent cracking. It is usually a good idea to normalize the stresses after the welding so it doesn’t crack in use. Ask your welder what he thinks.

If momma is away shopping for the day you could chance it and throw the case in your oven for an hour with all the heat you can muster. Then let is come down on its own for about 4 hours before you open the door. If you got a self cleaner, all the better. Just tell momma you are doing her a favor if she smells something funny when she gets back.
Ace
What could be more fun?
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08-11-2006 05:12 AM  14 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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Very good Idea ! But not this Time !
Absolutley correct ! Was going to plug in my inductive heaters and pack it off with my fire proofing and soak at around 600 -800 for three to 4 hours after it gets their - then post cool - monoriting with my K - type temocouple wire for at least 6hrs before bringing it to shock. Then repeat the cycle once more.

BUT NOT !

Heak it aint worth the current and still it's a food for the god's thing any way.

Cheap poor mans way would be to break it completley - down seals and all an bury it in a steel bucket of dolomite { kitty litter } along with a 600 watt American Beauty soldering copper and walk away for 8 Hr,s. Takes a minimum of 24 Hrs to post cool prior to exposing to O2.

Used too also degrease soaked fuses with a 100 watt Iron this way but I highley don't recommend it ! If it's not completley cool the minute it see's O2 POOF! like a fuse! and you better have the the hose ready!

Has great out door entertainment value! Running across the yard with a smoldering 1/4 scale fumbling for the hose after a few { just a couple Killians } and just as you get their ! Poof ! Only stinks a bit - then you gota get it dry from water. Then you gota have couple more to recover !

During the post clean up not one bit of poriosity or inclusions in the alloy - I'm gona idle up for five minutes for the jewl to too top things off a bit then get it HOT / HOT /HOT- then fuel again for another 20 minutes of smiles' and see if it go's ping ! If it doe's I have plan B aready in the works! Plan C is to call my ugly step sister Al - at Hansons after I beat it with my sock monkey !
greyeagle
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08-11-2006 12:46 PM  14 years ago
electro212

rrVeteran

Lancaster Pa

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Do What?
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08-14-2006 03:37 AM  14 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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What is the maxium permissiable amount of main shaft runnout ??? Anybody ????

Doe's any body know what the maximum allowable main shaft runnout allowance is ???

Went thru whole drive train prior to runn up.

I've got .002 total indicated runnount of main shaft just above the swash and a total of .007 at very the tip of the main shaft above the pass thru buda bolt location.

Measurements made using a dial indicator and Starret magnetic stand attached to a chunk of railroad rail on the bench weighting down one skid. Pretty rock solid.

Main shaft is a hollow Bergen Style - I believe their interchangable.

Also set up a vertical witness indicator off the tail boom to check the blade tip distances. Their is a definite difference of blade span of .0125 as confirmed with feeler guages.

Blades are used and incorporate bronze bushings which have seen a bit of wear.

Went out and tested the bird - I Still Got the Jiggle !!

Any one confirm the runnout alowance ???
greyeagle
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08-14-2006 04:13 AM  14 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Did you take out the canfield?
Did you take out the canfield balancer yet off the fan? Would like to see you try that and report back your findings.

I never measured runout on a main shaft. If I roll it on the table and it stays in contact with the table all the way around then I consider it good. Also, if the mainshaft is bent even before you take it out you can see the swash wobble back and forth as you spin the head.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 27 3DMax, 4488 flts
Spectra-G Hanson 27 3DMax, 3485 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 2090 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 989 flts
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