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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › eCCPM, mCCPM,CCPM, non CCPM SWM HPM M&M S&M
07-22-2006 03:07 AM  14 years ago
Micro-Maniac

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Yeah well, it's all a chicken and the egg riddle anyways I guess.

Misuse of the terminology annoyed someone into introducing the extended and various acronyms which in turn annoyed someone else as being misuse of the intended use of the terminology - It'll go round and round until it gets cornered.
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07-22-2006 07:53 PM  14 years ago
Aaron29

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The term mCCPM is used incorrectly.
OK I have to step in.

The terms eCCPM and mCCPM introduce ambiguity. They don't clear anything up as argued by some on this thread. And, not surprisingly, the industry hasn't accepted these terms.

Unless, of course, you note the "mCCPM" on the Raptor's box to try to sell a few more to people who want CCPM. I love Raptors but to me that's misrepresentative and shady. Somebody may hear an explanation of CCPM's shared power to the swashplate and decide they want this. They'll buy an expensive CCPM radio, and then look for a heli. They may find the mCCPM Raptor and think that this is the heli their friend was talking about.

Wrong.

These terms to "clarify" things do nothing of the kind.

I used to say eCCPM when referring to CCPM. I knew what CCPM was, but avoided saying it to please the eCCPM crowd.

I avoided using the term mCCPM altogether. mCCPM, when being used to describe a Raptor controls, is incorrect. The Raptor doesn't actuate two servos to make one flight control input. Nothing is being mixed. Show me a helicopter that actuates two servos to make a single input while utilizing purely mechanical systems and I'll gladly call it mCCPM.

ECCPM is a fine term and explains what's going on. But I'm going to get away from saying that as well, because the mere mention of eCCPM may legitimize the incorrect use of the term mCCPM.

I say 'mechanical' where others might say mCCPM. And everyone knows what I'm talking about. Needs no clarification.

I vote to keep the terms CCPM and mechanical. I'd be happy with the term ECCPM were it not for the possibility of someone presenting MCCPM as a term.

I said it before and I'll say it again, these new terms to "clarify" the types of helis do nothing of the sort. They introduce ambiguity. The very reason presented by proponents of the new terms is instead the reason to discard them.
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07-22-2006 08:52 PM  14 years ago
hootowl

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To say nothing is being mixed is ridiculous regardless of how many servos are being used. If nothing was being mixed it could not be called Cyclic Colletive Pitch Mixing.

In the eCCPM setup you technically could say it, from a mechanical point of view has no mixing. It is mixed electronically.

How is non CCPM mixed? You say there is no mixing? If there was no mixing there would be no flying.

I understand exactly your point about one servo running one axis. The pitch, elevator and aileron servos combine..... COMBINE motion. Combining motion is mixing even in a Raptor.

They ALLLLLLL MIIIIIIIIXXXX
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep
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07-22-2006 08:59 PM  14 years ago
Aaron29

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Hootowl,

You hold a resilient position. And if you manage to get the industry, from radio manufacturer to heli manufacturer to representatives to user, to adopt your terms, you'll have won.

That being said, CCPM and mechanical are understood by everyone.

eCCPM and mCCPM confuse this issue.
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07-22-2006 09:01 PM  14 years ago
Micro-Maniac

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Again another fool who thinks mixing is only about servos.

Put the computer radio down and step away from the ignorance.

I really don't feel like round 3 already.
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07-22-2006 09:05 PM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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Oh Chaos...... Watch what you say or I may have to search some posts and point out some things which point directly at street cred.In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-22-2006 09:07 PM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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And by the way.....

In the context that the acronym "CCPM" is used by this hobby... It is about the servo's being mixed. Not accurate from a techincal standpoint but we have all agreed that it works for what it's used as. A marketing term used for equipment selection. We did agree on that right?
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-22-2006 09:10 PM  14 years ago
Aaron29

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USA

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Captain Chaos,

The fact that you have to resort to name calling does not legitimize your argument in any fashion. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I fully understand that with a mechanical setup the linkages must have common pivot points to ensure that the controls for cyclic are isolated from the collective. But that's just it. All the mechanical what you call MIXING, is not mixing controls. It's isolating them from each other. The best systems are those that ensure swashplate tilt doesn't change when collective is added. And that collective never changes when cyclic is moved. Some of them are quite complicated, and ingenious when you look at them.

But the best systems are those that use proper geometry to ISOLATE, not mix, these functions.

Even if you don't accept this argument, my point is your terms eCCPM and mCCPM do nothing, in the current lexicon accepted industry-wide, to alleviate ambiguity.
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07-22-2006 09:18 PM  14 years ago
Micro-Maniac

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You're not saying anything that hasn't already been argued a dozen times at least in this single thread - There's nothing left - Sift back through and argue it all over again with yourself - I'm out.
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07-22-2006 09:23 PM  14 years ago
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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The combined motion.... the motion that is acting on the swash, IS Cyclic Collective Pitch Mixing. Even if mixed descretely along the way.

The resulting swash movement is the same... eCCPM and mCCPM. To even think one is a mixing system and the other is not is wrong.

My beef is just that.... they are both technically Cycle Collective Pitch Mixing.

When you say one is non-CCPM and you understand that mixing must occur on all of these swash systems.... and you are analyzing the term CCPM... you can get quite confused.

That's why they added mCCPM.

The only non-CCPM helis I know of are the little fixed pitch junk.

A better term might be Direct Link Servo System.... DLSS for eCCPM
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep
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07-22-2006 09:25 PM  14 years ago
Aaron29

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USA

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Oh and by the way. It is the computer radio manufacturers that invented the term CCPM. That is why it is understood to be a radio function.

When we look at it from the helicopter side of things, it gets confusing.
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07-22-2006 09:30 PM  14 years ago
Aaron29

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USA

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That is why you can't "put the computer radio down."

Had the computer radio people been thinking how we'd be analyzing it from the helicopter half of things maybe they'd have come up with something else.

But they didn't.
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07-22-2006 09:32 PM  14 years ago
Micro-Maniac

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Why should they? - They haven't treated any other mix differently - All the rest are called the same thing on the radios as they are called on the machines - It's not their fault for using the correct terminology for the electronic versions - It's our fault for not using the correct terminology for the mechanical versions.

That incorrect terminology has leaked it's way into industry use just like the extended acronyms etc are now also leaking into industry use - For us it's language of the time - For them it's whatever sells at the moment.
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07-22-2006 09:52 PM  14 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Oh no you di-ent! Y'all did NOT start this back up!op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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07-22-2006 11:15 PM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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Don't make me come back in here!!!! In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-25-2010 02:14 PM  10 years ago
m4rt

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Youkay

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eCCPM, mCCPM,CCPM, non CCPM SWM HPM M&M S&M
Hello,

All helicopters with collective pitch control are not CCPM, that's the whole reason for the distinction between mechanical and electronic CCPM. Some helicopters have the collective and cyclic pitch separated, ie not going through the swashplate. On these helicopters the swashplate does not move up and down the main shaft to effect collective pitch control and therefore no mechanical or electronic mixing of the controls is required.

Matthew.
I know this is old, but I'm with the above statement. The first time I ever heard of CCPM was with a Heim Star Ranger that I owned back in the 80's, understanding that the collective was controlled by the swash plate being raised or lowered along with all servos concerned. A non CCPM was where the swash did not rise up or drop down the main shaft and worked independently.
And... In true Forrest Gump fashion....."Thats all I got to say about Vietnam........" LOL!
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07-25-2010 06:25 PM  10 years ago
Aaron29

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USA

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Man this thing was rightfully dead and buried 4 years ago.

Ought to call you the resurrectionist.

I don't even think the people who posted on it have the same opinions anymore. The industry does a better job of defining these terms now, and everyone had ceasefired after the accord.

Way to lob a grenade into the demilitarized zone. LOL
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07-25-2010 06:28 PM  10 years ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Maybe Mike will close it. Hope so. Hint, hint.

TM
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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07-25-2010 07:40 PM  10 years ago
m4rt

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Hahaha.....! Just kidding guys! I had a great time reading it all and I think there was/is a lot of wisdom and knowlege from all contributors.
Thats my last word on the matter...........!

Unless......! Maybe.....!
Nah! LOL!
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08-02-2010 07:17 PM  10 years ago
m4rt

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and another thing.............!
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › eCCPM, mCCPM,CCPM, non CCPM SWM HPM M&M S&M
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