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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › eCCPM, mCCPM,CCPM, non CCPM SWM HPM M&M S&M
07-20-2006 10:18 PM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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But there are plenty of 90°/180° configured swash plates that are controlled by either mechanical mixing or electronic mixing and there's really no choice but to be specific about which method is being used in this case
Name me some models and link me to some posts where there is some confusion please. Because I can't find them. Not one applicable discussion other than someone wanting a name for a mechanical mix versus the computer radio mix we standardly call CCPM. I can't find one post that requests clarification on it other than "I heard there is eCCPM, mCCPM and CCPM. What is the difference between the three? So if no one read model helicopter world or saw Irwins adds we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion. In all honesty, It's futile to try to change it either way, It's all terms that are going to stay around. Just so happens there is a guy here that I work with that has a Hitec eclipse 7 and I read the box and the instructions today and it notes CCPM also in there. I never did find the add where it said eCCPM.

What ever works for you, as long as it makes sense to you who cares what you call it. I just can't see the re-work of terminology everytime someone says CCPM in a post people chime in and ask "don't you mean eCCPM" or some garbage like that. It kinda pisses me off sometimes. Makes you want to throw some stuff back and ask em' "Well, does a damn Fury Extreme instructions say anything about eCCPM or mCCPM? shut the f%^k up if you can't help with my interaction problem" Know what I mean? If they knew the model they would know the controls. If you don't know the model, stay out of it untill you do. Nothing personal but hey.... We are all entiteled to our own opinion right?
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-20-2006 10:24 PM  14 years ago
Micro-Maniac

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Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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What you are saying is if we are not familiar with the control setup of a particular brand/model of helicopter then we are too ignorant about helicopters in general to be of any help at all.

Why be limited to the help from only the people who fly and work on your particular model when other people might have as good or better advice?

If you think individual helicopter model designs evolved all on their own without similarities to other models you're wrong there.
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07-20-2006 10:41 PM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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What you are saying is if we are not familiar with the control setup of a particular brand/model of helicopter then we are too ignorant about helicopters in general to be of any help at all.
Not at all, but I am saying about it is that adding an e or m to the front of an acronym isn't the "answer all" to what you need to know about a control system to help someone. I can help all day with a raptor control system however I haven't owned one in 3 years. Same control system on a MX400 and the non CCPM t-rex (you knew exactly what I was talking about didnt you). And prior to owning a CCPM heli (my first was a Voyager 50) I didn't know squat about it. Since then I have owned numerous and had the privelage of building and setting up along with flying many different brands with many different configurations. From electric to turbines. And with all the learning experiences and troubles and nuances we needed help with. One key term came out in the questions. For example.

Vigor CS help.

I am running 140Deg CCPM and my radio doesn't have it as a programing option.

Or My Raptor Collective will not give me +10 and negative 10 pitch. Please help.

I still can't find a single post where the eCCPM or mCCPM has provided the least bit of assistance in a real world question. Please show me one. I may just be looking in the wrong place.
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-20-2006 10:44 PM  14 years ago
Micro-Maniac

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It's enough to inform people of the control system your particular heli uses so they have a better idea of where to look for a problem such as a mechanical problem or a programming problem - If it's an mCCPM system then that deduces much of the programming possibilies so they can turn their focus more towards the mechanics.
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07-20-2006 10:52 PM  14 years ago
shawgl

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And due to the wide use of the "marketing term" CCPM you know exactly that. It's either mechanical or CCPM. Done deal. From there you look at it and try to assertain the possible causes of the problem. You know it's either programing if it's CCPM or linkage if it's mechanical. In my line of work as an Airframes and Hydraulics (flight controls from the stick to the head) it's called a conditional inspection.

Something that struck me in one of your posts when I was searching this stuff is that you reccomend a cyclic ring versus properly rigging the controls of the heli in the first place. That sounds to me like you may need some assistance with some flight control issues of your own. I'm not trying to be a wise a$$. Just saying. That is not the way to go. A ton of guys have their heli rigged correct and still use them, they are not a crutch to hide binding controls. They are a crutch to keep your stir symetrical during maneuvers.
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-20-2006 11:09 PM  14 years ago
Micro-Maniac

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What about your mechanics? Mechanical what?

I don't see how bringing up other topics in an effort to discredit me on those topics has anything do with this topic - If you have something to say about that other topic then feel free to post a reply to that thread or create a new one to debate that issue - It doesn't belong here and is quite petty in this regard.
(I haven't discussed cyclic rings in a long time so whatever my opinion was then is likely unchanged today??)

Like everyone here - Just because I'm Key Veteran status at this moment and it reflects that on all my old posts doesn't mean I wasn't a New Heliman at the time - Just like most others I'm here to exchange knowledge and information and grow with it - What are you here for? To argue for arguement's sake?

I feel that I'm providing accurate information here and if you can't disprove the accuracy of the information or just don't want to accept it for yourself then why linger here and argue about it so? - So you don't agree with the use of this terminology - We're all aware of that by now - We do use it - So what can anyone say for you at this point? - I'm sorry I wrecked your life by promoting correct terminology?
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07-20-2006 11:59 PM  14 years ago
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Using CCPM for e and m systems is correct because they both ARE CCPM.

Using CCPM for only e systems confuses the whole shibang.

It's like... wait a minute, the Raptor and other non e systems mix cyclic and pitch (Cyclic Collective Pitch Mixing) so how come CCPM is only used on the e version?
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep
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07-21-2006 12:05 AM  14 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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You say tomaytos, I say tomahtos. Now pass the damn croutons and lets eat some salad.op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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07-21-2006 12:27 AM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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It's like... wait a minute, the Raptor and other non e systems mix cyclic and pitch (Cyclic Collective Pitch Mixing) so how come CCPM is only used on the e version?
Not one time has there been a control question on here and this question had to be asked.
What about your mechanics? Mechanical what?
there is not one single post that I have found in this or hf that has one shred of insight brought into it by the magical term eCCPm or mCCPM......not one. However I have seen many posts where CCPM in reference to the radio mix cleared the entire confusion up.
so how come CCPM is only used on the e version ?
We have already established it happens in all moving swash helis. The label CCPM as it's used is refering to the electronic mix. however throwing an e or m in front doesnt' clarify Sh1t that has meaning in our controls. You two can't even find one supporting post where your terminology has helped.. Not one single post.


And to top it all off I searched all of your posts to see if either of you had provided the "key ingredient" to answer any question about CCPM. Nothing of substance was found other than your magical "we need to alleviate this mass confusion that the improper use of CCPM" is causing.

Now it is just for arguments sake..... I can keep you two going for the next 94 days. I'm sure of it. 12 hours a day. I'll be here. So you may want to get some rest or hit unsubscribe.
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-21-2006 12:30 AM  14 years ago
Micro-Maniac

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Why? - For what purpose? - Either you choose to use correect terminology or you choose not to - What is there to argue to great lengths about that?
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07-21-2006 12:32 AM  14 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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hit unsubscribe
There's no need to subscribe to this thread. It keeps making its own way back to the top of the forum like a bad dream.

Tomaytos, tomahtos, potaytos, potahtos -- let's call the whole thing off.
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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07-21-2006 12:42 AM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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He11 no!! I'm in for the long haul you quitters. I will go as far as to say I didn't find a single post you two gave anyone help on a control problem. How ya like them apples? Not one single post where either of you helped a single person with a control problem. The infamous "we" that needed to know "exactly" what type of controls are used. Man, you two crack me up. You never did say exactly what you have experience with, I would like to know because it doesn't seem like much to me. Mainly micro's I would bet. Just a guess though. Make no mistake about it.... You two are on the top of my list of who to search out when I need flight control help. Yea right!!!! Might get caught up in the "lingo" too much and miss the fact my radio was on the wrong model or something common sense like that. I got nothing but time so I'll be here. Hoot's going to have to close it or you guys are going to give up eventually. I aint quitting.

Let me know when you help someone......... I'm anxious to hear how it works out.
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-21-2006 12:44 AM  14 years ago
Micro-Maniac

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Haul as long as you like I guess - It's a dead topic at this point and I'm not interested in argueing about nothing.

Have fun.
Maybe you should go debate cyclic rings now.
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07-21-2006 12:45 AM  14 years ago
matman

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White Oak Texas USA

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Can't we all just get along? "Respect my Authoritiah!"
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07-21-2006 12:49 AM  14 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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You two are on the top of my list of who to search out when I need flight control help.
BOY are you overdue for a fifth. Or two. And a beer chaser. Or two.

I have no difficulty at all helping out with or defining control issues. I have an intimate understanding of the functions of both mCCPM and eCCPM helis, how the servos actuate their respective controls and how to set up, adjust and fine tune them for various types of flight characteristics.

Nor do I have any difficulty explaining these things verbally or with a keyboard, because I choose terminology that's commonly used and understood, as any good teacher OR student would do -- so if you need help Mr. Shaw, just ask.

You appear to be quite willing AND EAGER to type for four more days about acronyms -- meanwhile I'll be out flying my helis.

Who's laughing now?

Still willing to hoist a Throttle Cuervo in your direction. If you're not permitted to enjoy even one then I'll bloody well rub it in by enjoying two.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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07-21-2006 01:11 AM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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I am
because I get to go shoot the GAU-17 when I fly. And your pay check is paying for my rounds.

Seems as though Chaos is quite the expert when it comes to CP's and Reflex. I sure am glad that using the correct terminology sure is helping all these folks. As far as my CCPM help, I strongly doubt I will be needing any advice from you two. Seing how it's not on a simulator or a CP. Pretty funny though that your widely used "correct terminology" isn't so widely used. I thought that it would be used more than it is. At least according to the searches for either e or m CCPM. Not mcuh at all.


You two are legends in your own mind. I can't wait to meet you guys some day. It's gotta be entertaining to listen to you bicker about the affects of sunlight on carbon blades or something stupid like that. Pretty entertaining.
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-21-2006 01:13 AM  14 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Shaw, I never said the terminology was correct -- only that it had evolved into common usage against all efforts to the contrary by rigid thinkers like you.

Big difference.

Glad to be of service, entertainingly or otherwise.
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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07-21-2006 01:23 AM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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But the common terminology that you claim has evolved is used minimaly. And almost exclusively in discussions like this. Have you done a search on eCCPM or mCCPM? Try it and see what you get some are pretty funny. Not to mention stupid. So the evolution hasn't really happened except in a limited group of people. I already stated that I learned some things out of this, mainly off of Matt's inputs however I just can't agree with the need of these new terms to clarify anything. And to support this I offered you the proof to show that there were no posts from Chaos, you, or anyone else that the use of eCCPM or mCCPM cleared up any confusion. That is pretty much proof that no one is confused and all this "evolution" crap is going on in your own minds. I just think it's funny.


I agree it isn't correct and technically accurate however neither is yours, so until one is come up with..... I'll just use CCPM since everyone understands it. Sound good? Still, please let me know when you guys help someone out with your new acronym.
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-21-2006 01:25 AM  14 years ago
Micro-Maniac

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I said that it's correct and stand by it until convinced otherwise.

Bye now.
Happy agreeing to disagree - Or not agreeing - Or whatever - Later.
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07-21-2006 01:29 AM  14 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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You seem to be stuck on this idea that myself and others are actually trying to sell folks on the idea that these evolved terms are the ONLY terms to use for discussions about heli controls. Couldn't be further from the truth but you're somehow unable to see this.

I don't give a damn what terms are used -- LANGUAGE EVOLVES. I'll use whatever BEST conveys the principles I'm trying to convey that particular day.
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › eCCPM, mCCPM,CCPM, non CCPM SWM HPM M&M S&M
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