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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › eCCPM, mCCPM,CCPM, non CCPM SWM HPM M&M S&M
07-17-2006 07:25 PM  14 years ago
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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This is exactly why evolution has added the "e" and "m" to CCPM. Newbees like me.... that's right... dummies, idiots, French, whatever you want to call me, came along well after the old CCPM/Standard nonmenclature was coined and decided to analyze what CCPM stood for.

Once I learned it stood for Cyclic Collective Pitch Mixing I immediately said to myself... hey... they all do that.

Than I put two and two together when reading all of the different ways hobbiests, manufacturers and writers are calling it, it came apparent that in all of it, eCCPM and mCCPM was obvious and simple.

I don't agree that it's confusing at all.

CCPM is swash articulation and "e" or "m" is the way it's accomplished.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep
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07-17-2006 07:28 PM  14 years ago
Micro-Maniac

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Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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CCPM is the swash articulation and "e" or "m" is the method it's accomplished.
Very well put.
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07-17-2006 07:28 PM  14 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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CCPM is swash articulation and "e" or "m" is the way it's accomplished.
Officially and heretofore agreed upon and thereafter to be included in the next printing of the Very Temporary Unofficial Heli Handbook.
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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07-17-2006 07:31 PM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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So in what reference DO we use mCCPM in our set ups on helicopters? Do you say that when you make an adjustment to the mCCPM control rods that got to the swashplate on either the left or right side? I didn't think so. So when you do make and adjustment to the cyclic control rods on the sides of the swash does it change your collective rig? Nope. So why do we need to differentiate the two? What purpose does it serve? Other than to say you need a radio capable of supporting 120 degree CCPM to fly a Fury you don't even need the damn term. It matters not.In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-17-2006 07:31 PM  14 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Oh well.op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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07-17-2006 07:47 PM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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So how is it just eCCPM if it's still mechanically mixed by the swash plate? Untill you get a R/C helicopter with a collective lever setup that runs inside the mast they all are mechanicaly mixed in one way or another. So once again, we get back to the intended use of the acronym CCPM in it's use in the r/c heli industry.... Equipment selection.


Oh yea!!!!!! It aint over. Why do you need another acrony to describe the differences in your heli when all you have to say is I don't need a computer radio because my heli doesn't require it to fly because it uses one servo for the collective, one for pitch and another for roll. It's mechanically simple to set up and I don't need a high dollar radio. Is it acronym envy? Did you look at any manuals for eCCPM and mCCPM use? Let me know when you find one. Untill then it's slang used to make it a little easier for you to comprehend.

by the way, all your raptor collective levers did was remove the engineering required to make a complex collective system that would allow the swash plate to be stationary by adding to the inner ring a set of collective levers. Hence making it simple which is exactly what you are trying counteract. The term CCPM was and is used in refference to the requirement for electronic mixing of the controls by a computer radio. What exactly do you need to support a mCCPM heli?

By the way, what do you fly?
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-17-2006 07:59 PM  14 years ago
shawgl

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What have we learned here?
I think that what we have learned here is that.

1. All heli's that move the swashplate for collective are implementing mechanical cyclic and collective mixing at a proportional rate.

2. When the acronym CCPM is used it only refers to the equipment required to accomplish the movement ie radio. Especcialy since you don't need sh1t when you buy a raptor. Just a basic radio without CCPM capability.

3. Some people just have to think up sh1t to keep themselves busy and squeeze every last drop of blood out of the dead horse in order to fight a loosing battle.

4.
Method of accomplishment
....... They are all electronicly actuated and mechanically mixed hence you can't classify one as e and the other as m. The whole point of this. They are all e and m and the acronym CCPM only applies to the type of control system and the equipment required to operate it.

WOW!!!!

Damn that was fun. Hey Capt and Hoot, I wasn't calling names, just being scarcastic with it.
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-17-2006 08:00 PM  14 years ago
Matt-Drummer

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Suffolk, United Kingdom

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I have some news for you shawgl, there are model helicopters where the collective rod moves up the inside of the mainshaft and there have been for years - even before computer radios.

In these helicopters the swashplate does not move up and down the mainshaft and cyclic/collective pitch inputs are truly seperated. This is why lots of people use the term CCPM to distinguish between those helicopters where the swashplate moves up and down the mainshaft and those that don't.
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07-17-2006 08:06 PM  14 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Doohooood.op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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07-17-2006 08:07 PM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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Oh I know there is, very similar system to a huey. Got pics if you would like and that is the only time there is not any sort of CCPM going on. So like I said there is no need and no way to classify an eCCPM and mCCPM. Because they all do it some way or another. They are all electronically actuated mechanical systems. And the context of CCPM is used in selection of equipment only and how it moves the controls. Do you move more than one servo or not to acheive a specific input. No need to get all "technical" up in huraaaa is what my standpoint is.

Man I don't know how some of you guys make it to elite veteran in two years. This is killing me.
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-17-2006 08:08 PM  14 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Shaw, you're entitled to some slack due to your location and the stress level that it must bring to your day to day world, but come on, man. Terminology evolves. What does it matter as long as the message being sent is conveyed?op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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07-17-2006 08:11 PM  14 years ago
Matt-Drummer

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So, all helicopters have CCPM except for those that don't?
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07-17-2006 08:20 PM  14 years ago
shawgl

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It's slang man, You have to agree with me when I say the only reason it's even brought up in conversation is when you are refering to a heli like for example......

Q: Hey man... I'm thinking of upgrading from my Craptor to a Fury. What do you think since your experienced in this hobby and I see you flying the dog piss out of that Fury all the time (yea, I do wish)?


A: Well man that's a big investment, I see you only have an Airtronics sh1t box (joke)for a radio and it doesn't support CCPM heli's so you have to get a new radio with it too. So think about that before you decide to buy it. If you need help please let me know.

Q2: What do you mean CCPM?

A2: Well man, you see... In a CCPM system the radio moves more than one servo to get the swashplate to do a control response. It does it in the computer. For example if you move the stick to the right the two servos on the front right and left both move. One up and the other down.


NewB response. OH!!!! I always wondered what that meant. No Sh1t. That is easy. I should have never bought this Sh1t box airtronix radio. I wish I would have understood it like that before but I kept seeing this eCCPM and mCCPM stuff on RR and didn't understand it.

Now you take a shot at explaining your e and m thing to a newb and all you are going to do is confuse him.

BOOOYAAAAAAA Victory is mine!!!!!! Stand at ease fella's I'll be in the area all day.
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-17-2006 08:23 PM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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So, all helicopters have CCPM except for those that don't?
What was the context of the acronym when it came up? The use of more than one servo to move the swashplate right? So does your system use more than one to move it? Yes=CCPM No=NO......

Don't you know No means NO man!!!
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-17-2006 08:27 PM  14 years ago
Matt-Drummer

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Well it works for me and I don't care what anyone else wants to call it.

Anybody flying model helicopters should take the time to understand how they work and you don't need RunRyder for that, in fact I would advise anyone new to the hobby to avoid it like the plague as the advice is not necessarily reliable and its untested, it may be good or it may be bad. I would also advise anybody who does not understand how these models work to stick to their Raptor and avoid the Fury until they know what they are doing.
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07-17-2006 08:29 PM  14 years ago
Matt-Drummer

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The term CCPM existed well before computer radio's, it was used to distinguish between those models where the swash moves for collective pitch changes and those where it doesn't. The ability to move the swashplate by mixing the servo outputs electronically was not around when I first heard the term CCPM.
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07-17-2006 08:45 PM  14 years ago
shawgl

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Murrieta, CA

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Plague
I stayed away and learned it on my own with the use of books such as Rays Authoritative helicoper manual, magazines and the various manuals that came with all the equipment I bought and had the privelage to read when building and setting up others models. This is where I have the privelage of saying it's only context where it is used is in equipment selection. There is no need to diferentiate between helis that use the wire up the mast mode anymore because there aren't many if any on the market anymore.

As for when the acronym came up.... I don't know for sure. I have only been involved in this since 02 and at that point I had never even heard the e and m versions. I have been on here since 03 and have only heard the e and m trying to say that it's how it's accomplished and that is not the case. It's not accurate trying to say CCPM as it is used in determining equipment requirements is incorrect and it should be e or m CCPM stated in the manuals. WRONG. They all are electronically actuated mechanicaly mixed systems unless you have a wire up the mast type then there is no mixing involved.

So, since you don't need the acronym for selecting gear for a specific heli, why use it. Why not be content with just saying my helicopter is mechanicly mixed. I don't need a radio with CCPM funcions? That is all it's used for anyways.

My question for you.

I am a newb now...... So be gentle with your terms..


What is eCCPM and mCCPM and what is CCPM?
In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.
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07-17-2006 08:52 PM  14 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Doohooood. You've forced this to happen...

One, two, three, four -- I declare an alphabet war.
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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07-17-2006 08:58 PM  14 years ago
Matt-Drummer

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Suffolk, United Kingdom

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I have been flying helicopters since 1978 although as I was only 12 at the time and the helicopters were rubbish there was not a lot of flying going on.

At the time it was a useful way to distinguish between different methods of achieving control and it was natural to use the `e' when computer radios came on the market.

I will admit that it is now of little use as there is only one helicopter currently produced (the Zoom or similiar) that uses a collective mechanism inside the main shaft but there were several available in the 80`s and 90`s.

Most people flying for 10 years or less have no or little knowledge of these older designs and the Zoom probably seemed quite novel to the newer flyers.

I can accept the newer way of differentiating between the systems we use but I also think that there could be more understanding over why some people use the descriptions that they do.

I'm no great flyer and most new flyers are much better than me but you really have to have been around at the advent of computer radios to understand why I have my opinion, it works for me. CCPM is not a term robbed from the full size world, it was just a terminolgy to distinguish between those helicopters where the swashplate moved up and down the mainshaft and those where it didn't - it was simple at the time and made sense and the e and m were added later when the computer radios arrived.

The term CCPM just referred to the fact that the swashplate was moved to accomplish both collective and cyclic pitch changes, that was it.
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07-17-2006 09:55 PM  14 years ago
Micro-Maniac

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Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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People - It's simply a terminology issue - Fact of the matter the issue exists and some independent thinking folks came up with newer more specific terminology. Why has this become a greater issue than the original? Is it really this hard to accept being specific with proper terminology? I told you we're not satisfied with the layman terms of "standard mix" etc anymore - This is the situation and the solution to date - Do you have a better one?
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › eCCPM, mCCPM,CCPM, non CCPM SWM HPM M&M S&M
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