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HomeAircraftHelicopterKyosho Caliber/Quest Neo-Caliber series › Picture for Dave, overly sensitive cyclic
02-13-2006 01:44 AM  12 years agoPost 1
jfint

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Simi Valley, CA

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OK, as some of you may have noticed in my other post, I have a caliber 30 with really sensitive cyclic. It might be somethign I've missing in my radio, might be mechanical, might be I just don't have a proper headspeed yet. But here are pics of my setup, if anyone sees somethign wrong lemme know.

-Josh

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02-13-2006 01:46 AM  12 years agoPost 2
jfint

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Simi Valley, CA

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Little hard to see, but the rods are attached to the inner holes on the inner holes on the crank arms, I believe thats what the mannual said about running ECCPM, Also, I removed the two 90 degree balls from teh swashplaste, as they were hitting the canopy, and I wasn't using them.

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02-13-2006 01:55 AM  12 years agoPost 3
Dwight

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West Chicago, IL

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Have you looked in the radio at the ATV and Expo settings? If so what are you set for on AIL and ELE?

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02-13-2006 02:10 AM  12 years agoPost 4
jfint

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Simi Valley, CA

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ATV is the Swash settings? if so they are both at 70, I tried both 0expo, and -40% on aileron and elevator, didn't get much of a change, although the expo helped a little. I see no reson why I should need expo though, this thing shoudl seem rock solid to me since I'm used to flying electrics.

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02-13-2006 02:20 AM  12 years agoPost 5
Jack Skip

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Abaco, Bahamas

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When setting up my planes I try to get the End Point Adjustments on the high side to increase my servo resolution. If you push down your EPA to 70% you will loose servo resolution, and it would be better to go with a shorter servo arm and get your EPA up to 100% or more.

If you limit the travel of the servo to 70% each side, your travel may seem jumpy, not smooth. I tried this on my 3D plane and could see a noticible difference on my control surfaces, jumpy. I pushed them up to over 100% with a shorter servo arm and the control surfaces moved much more smoothly.

Could this contribute to the touchy cyclic?

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02-13-2006 03:50 AM  12 years agoPost 6
Chem Geek

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That's EPA, not Swash travel. Problem is, if he needs 40% on cyclic, and 80% on pitch, he can push the EPA's a little, but not too much, as you need the full pitch range. It's an option I suppose.

By twitchy, do you mean it responds to very little stick movement, the cyclic rate is too much as maximum, or both? If it's sensitive to just a little stick movement, dial in the negative expo, if the cyclic is too much, pull the SWASH function down (from like 70 to 60 for startes, this will limit maximum cyclic) till your happy, or do both until you're happy.

I did that with mine at first, but soon I had it back up all the way, and super light paddles on it. What kind of electric did you have? Some of them are not that much more unstable. Oh yea, do you have all the paddle weights in?

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02-13-2006 04:23 AM  12 years agoPost 7
jfint

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Simi Valley, CA

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I have a T-rex, I run a headspeed of about 2600 on it, so its pretty stable for an electric, but still... Its a wierd sensitivity, its like you can move it a bit without response, then all of a sudden it jumps across the air.

I haven't tried lowering the swash setting yet, I was planning to measure the amount of airleron or elevator pitch(IS 7 degrees a good measurement for a 30 size also?)

Flybar weights huh, I had to look that up in the manual, I checked and no they are not in there, can I use raptor paddles? I could pick up a heavier set of those at the hobby store.

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02-13-2006 04:51 AM  12 years agoPost 8
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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It's hard to tell for sure in your pictures (need to work on that focus thing -- or maybe you were still shaking from the first flight) but which hole are you using on those servo arms.

The Caliber manual recommends that the aileron, elevator and pitch servos pick off the control at 10-11 millimeters out from the center of the servo shaft. If those are Futaba 4-armed servo arms, it looks like you're on the third hole out, that would be about 13.5 millimeters, way too much. The second hole out is 10 mm, just right.

Also -- Dig up more screws for those servos. All four holes in each servo need to be screwed down, not just one screw in opposite corners. Fix the grommets, too. The ones with screws in them are in pretty bad shape. Using the eyelets in the grommets is OK, but screw the screws down good and tight, use a washer beneath the screw's head. You want the servos held down GOOD and TIGHT, not able to move around.

You have the balls in the correct holes for those three bellcranks, the bottom hole is the one used for CCPM. You also have the bellcranks on the rear frame bosses, that's good.

-----

Jfint's electric was a T-Rex, a micro known for being twitchy beyond belief.

-----

Jfint -- I don't think I've ever asked, and you've not ever posted -- what transmitter are you using with the Caliber?

Among other things, your transmitter settings may be really hosed. It might be worth it to get your transmitter back to the default settings and start from scratch.

-----

Jfint As Phsyics noted, you can cool off the cyclic by reducing the aileron and elevator mix settings in the swash menu. This can help.

If you have the TX properly set up, have backed off on the cyclics a bit, you can cool the response down even more by either using exponential (to reduce response around neutral) or a better solution would be add some flybar weights out near the paddles.

ATV is NOT swash mix settings. They are distinct, separate functions. Your best bet would be to put the endpoints (EPA or ATV -- whatever it's called in your TX) back to 100% for starters. Put the aileron and elevator swash mix back to 65%. That, coupled with the correct length servo arms should get you to the recommended starting point in the Caliber manual.

Dave

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02-13-2006 05:01 AM  12 years agoPost 9
jfint

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Simi Valley, CA

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Ahh, ATV is EPA, ic, yeah those are at 100%. I am flying with an eclipse 7. It is actually going back to hitec this week for an upgrade so I expect to be starting from sctratch when I get it back. So far it sounds like I am on the right track, I'll change the servo arms, and find some more fasteners for the servos.

Thanks for all the advice. sorry about the pics, my digital camera is about 7 years old, and if you move at all whwn trying to take a close up it gets pretty fuzzy. I've been spending so much money on rc lately that a new camera keeps getting bumped to the bottom of the list.


Josh

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02-13-2006 05:39 AM  12 years agoPost 10
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Jfint -- lose the antenna wrap around the tail boom support unless you want to lose the heli in the air. It's a bad idea to wrap the antenna around metal heli parts. You should have a straight shot to the rear of the heli, away from the rest of the electronics.

Take a close look at this picture for the antenna installation:

Through the small plastic tube on the frame of the heli, between the tail boom supports. I drilled a hole in the lower part of the vertical fin, and screwed a 20 mm long 3mm bolt through the fin, holding it on with a locknut to the fin, with a seocond locknut threaded on to just the end of the bolt. The antenna is passed through a piece of one of the cut-off servo arms (two holes). Tip of the antenna goes through one hole, then back down through the second. This little piece of plastic stays on the end of the wire. A small rubber band is stretched between the bolt on the vertical fin, the other end captures the end of the antenna and that piece of servo arm.

The front-end detail for the antenna can be seen here:

Again, another cut-off piece of servo arm with two holes has been used as a strain relief, the antenna then passed through that little tube, and on its way to the rear.

Dave

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02-13-2006 05:48 AM  12 years agoPost 11
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Here's another tip to make life easier in the fueling department. Pick up a Tee-filter, a KSJ fuel line clamp, and some fuel line plugs.

Hook up your plumbing as shown below:

Line from the main tank to the vent on the header. Klunk line from the header goes to one end of the Tee-filter. The other end of the Tee-filter gets a KSJ clamp on it, then goes to the carb. The third fitting on the Tee-filter gets a short hose and a plug (the one shown in the picture is from Four Most products (look them up in the Tower Hobbies site). Great Planes has a sexier looking plug made from aluminum.

When you want to fuel, shut the clamp to the carb, pull the plug out of the short hose, insert your filler nozzle and pump away. When you're done, unplug the filler, put the plug back in. When you get ready to start, open the clamp and fly.

Afterwards, you can shut the engine off and run out excess fuel simply by closing the clamp.

To remove fuel, close the clamp, pull the plug, hook up your pump, and pump away.

You get an added bonus of filtering the fuel going to the motor. I also use a filter on the pump line going into the fuel jug.

It's a little thing, but makes life a bit easier. By closing the clamp, you will also prevent siphoning of fuel into the motor which can cause a hydraulic lock.

I used heavy duty button-thread from my wife's sewing stuff to keep the lines on the various nipples.

Dave

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02-13-2006 06:05 AM  12 years agoPost 12
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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The stock paddles have weights in them. If yours are missing, that would explain some of the twitchyness.

You can pick up a pair of these (KSJ-508), 3mm split weights from Heliproz for about $15,

http://www.rchelisplus.com/cart/car...ubstring=ksj508

or you can buy a new set of flybar paddles from Heliproz or RC Heliworks (they come with the weights) for the same price.

BTW -- if you use those brass eyelets in the grommets, insert them from the bottom. The flange of the eyelet rests on the plastic servo mount, instead of biting into it. The head of the screw and its washer is what bottoms out on the top end without the flange.

Dave

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02-15-2006 04:49 PM  12 years agoPost 13
jfint

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Simi Valley, CA

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Thanks for all the replys, My heli radio is in for repairs now, so it will be a while before I can post a story. I'm thinking that the servo arm lengths might have been my downfall Thanks again.

Josh

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02-15-2006 06:50 PM  12 years agoPost 14
Chem Geek

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It almost sounds like his flybar isn't moving freely. You say you put a control in, and nothing happens then all of sudden it slams in? Is everything moving freely on the head?

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02-15-2006 08:58 PM  12 years agoPost 15
jfint

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Simi Valley, CA

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Well I checked all the control imputs and linkages and they seemed very smooth, however I I didn't check the flybar itself, I wouldn't seem that with just control movements eigther, so good call on something to double check, thanks physics nut.

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02-15-2006 09:11 PM  12 years agoPost 16
Chem Geek

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When in doubt, start guessing.

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02-17-2006 11:50 AM  12 years agoPost 17
Jack Skip

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Abaco, Bahamas

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Any luck finding your trouble?

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02-17-2006 04:17 PM  12 years agoPost 18
jfint

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Simi Valley, CA

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Nothing that jumps out like, "OMG that was deffinately it" Everything seems to move quite freely. I did shorten the throw on the servo arms. My heli radio won't be back from hitec till next week, so it will nbe a while before I can try this ship out again. I think I might get the white raptor paddles also, I read somewhere in here that these wiegh about the same as the kyosho ones with the weights in them, but I'll probably try it like this again before i do that.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterKyosho Caliber/Quest Neo-Caliber series › Picture for Dave, overly sensitive cyclic
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