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HomeAircraftHelicopterCentury Radikal G20-30 N640 Hawk Predator › Hawk counter gear pin. Please Help!!!
02-12-2006 01:11 AM  12 years agoPost 1
jmsilhy

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Austin, Texas

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Hi, just a quick question, has anyone lost this pin? I was testing the mechanics for my bell 222 today, and everything seemed allright until the blades stopped spinning (before takeoff) and I noticed the gear was way down of it's original position, and the gear attached to the motor couldn't move this anymore, thus running unloaded. I don't know what to look for or how to fix this! Please help!

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02-12-2006 02:46 AM  12 years agoPost 2
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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jmsilhy,

About the only way that could happen is if the set screw in the pinion gear, the one on the top of the intermediate shaft, came loose and the shaft slid down. Check that.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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02-13-2006 04:37 PM  12 years agoPost 3
noname

rrVeteran

Woodinville, WA

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jmsilhy,

I'm a Century Rep for MX City and I'll be happy to check your heli out and make sure everything's in order. I'll PM you with my phone number and maybe we can get together during the week so that you're up and flying by the comming weekend.

Q: Have you checked if the pin is still there ? Did the helicopter sustain any "real" damage (i.e. stripped gears, broken parts) during this misshap ? Did you use loctite to secure the set screw in the pinion gear ?

Please keep me posted!

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02-13-2006 07:48 PM  12 years agoPost 4
jmsilhy

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Austin, Texas

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Thank you both for your replies. I haven't checked the pin because I don't know if it is necessary to take apart all teh frames in order to check this, I wanted to make sure here in RR if there's a possible simple solution. I'm going to check the set screw, even though I don't think it was the case because the whole shaft would have gone up and down, and not just the bearing.

No damage to the helicopter though, fortunately! I couldn't even get it to a hover when this happend.

Now about the locktite, since this was a factory installed assembly, I didn't get it out to do that. My bad, should have known better. The problem is, if I lost the pin, there's no way to get it here, so that means a couple of weeks more grounded

Thanks for your help (your live help will be very much appreciatted!)

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02-13-2006 11:08 PM  12 years agoPost 5
SteveH

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Texas

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If you find that you need a pin, PM me an address and I will send you one.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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02-14-2006 04:47 PM  12 years agoPost 6
jmsilhy

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Austin, Texas

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Thanks a lot Steve, sure thing! I will meet with noname tonight and check the whole thing out. With his experience with Century products I'm sure we will know in a sec. if we do need one or not. I'll let you know.

Thanks a lot to all of you, I'm really impressed on how reps. will help out modelers and now I can see the importance of having reps. as a brand.

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02-15-2006 05:06 PM  12 years agoPost 7
jmsilhy

rrApprentice

Austin, Texas

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Update...
Damn! A lot of hours put into this heli, only to get grounded because of a badly set set-screw in the drivetrain. I can't believe it really. I think this sucks. I know in part it's my fault, I should have known better and disassembled the whole thing, then put it together again with MY standards.

Yesterday, with a lot of great help from century's rep (noname), we determined the cause for this failure. The threads for the set screw that goes through the drive gear, the one that's inside the main gear in the Hawk, were kind of stripped (manufacturing defect) so the little screw felt tight befor even reaching the shaft.

This caused the assemply to fail because when it was ready to fly, as the conter gear spun up, the shaft went down, the gear went down, throwing the pin (God knows where), and grounding me for the next couple of weeks. And the bad news, we had to take apart the whole thing, just for a little set screw.

Also the manual leaves a lot to imagination in this areas. Good thing this rep was at hand. With him and century's webpage (there's a great scale mechanics manual in there) we managed to figure this out; Noname, thanks for all the support your giving me, and I'll appreciate also if you can get us that pin to be able to assemble the thing again.

My message to Century, please pay mora attention to your assembly procedures, as it is really frustrating when something like this happens.

My message to users, if you want something well done, do it yourself, so even if it takes you a few more hours to assemble a heli, get all screws out and locktite 'em in again. Ensure everything is assembled properly, and always check this forums for more information.

Thanks...

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02-16-2006 06:06 AM  12 years agoPost 8
noname

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Woodinville, WA

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jmsilhy,

It was my pleasure helping you get your heli fixed and sorted out. By the way things currently look, there's a high chance you'll be maidening it during the weekend, and should that be the case, please let me know how it flies.

While I can't deny pre-assembled parts should be 100% trustable, the truth is there are many variables and factors beyond our control that simply lead me to state the following: "Even though pre-assembled parts should be in perfect working condition and theoretically no tampering / checking them should be needed, in reality you'll be better off ensuring everything is indeed in optimal working condition; even if this requires spending a few extra hours getting the heli up together."

Regarding the pin, I'll get you a replacement and shall give it to you within this month.

Also, can you please tell me exactly what's wrong with the printed manual that you received ? For instance, what was left to your imagination or what wasn't clear enough for immediate understanding ?

And last, but not least if you need anything else, or if you have any other problems, please let me know and I'll do everything within my reach to make your Century experience even more enjoyable that it already is

/MX Century Rep

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02-17-2006 06:15 AM  12 years agoPost 9
jmsilhy

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Austin, Texas

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Possible defect...
Ok, so I assembled the whole thing again, made a pin out of a piece of wire I had. I loctited the set screw real well, but when the whole assembly is ready, the gear still has some play up and down. Seems to always be engaged with the engine's gear though, so I don't know if this might be a problem or if it's just the way it's supposed to be.

(for reference, you can go to: http://www.centuryheli.com/support/...f/2nd_pdf/9.pdf)


Any comments?

Thanks!

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02-17-2006 12:52 PM  12 years agoPost 10
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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jmsilhy,

Many times on the Hawk mechanics, the flat on the counter gear shaft where the pinion mounts needs to be ground farther down on the shaft to get all the up and down play out of the gear train. You may need to remove the shaft, and lengthen the flat a few millimeters. You can check it by removing the set screw and with the shaft pushed all the way up, and the gear pushed all the way down, look thru the hole and see if you can see the step in the shaft where the flat ends.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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02-17-2006 03:18 PM  12 years agoPost 11
smackay

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Rochester, Vermont

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Good morning all!
I would just like to stick my nose in this for a bit.

noname,
In reguards to the manual for the HawkPro, Its biggest shortcoming I see is the photos are dark, blurry and not very easy to decipher. In at least one instance, They contradict the text and even themselves. Take a look at the tail rotor servo mounting instructions. One picture shows it mounted on the right side of the boom pointing left and another shows it just the opposite. The instructions say to put it on the right facing left but in reality, That causes alot of binding in the pushrod. If you mount it on the left pointing right, Its a much better fit, The gyro and servo must be reversed for this setup to work, but IMHO I would rather have the smoother run of the pushrod. Secondly, There is not really any decent setup instructions for the linkages. Sure, If you are really experienced, Its probably fine. But Century promotes this as a beginners model. As a beginner, I dont think I could have made this bird safe and stable from the manual. I got Tons of help from this list and for that I am very greatful. One person pointed me to the HawkSport manual which is way better. I am a mechanical designer with an aerospace company and I can tell you from experience. Century should ditch the grainy photos and replace them with true mechanical drawings.

SteveH,
My counter gear has a bit of up and down play as well. So I guess this means another disassembly (this time is the 4th) as far as you know, Is there anything else I should check while I have it apart? I've done the locktight work on everything. I'm going to be really nervous to fly this thing. I have visions of it exploding on the first hover. Sounds like you cant trust Century at all! One last question and then I'll shut up Should the flybar control arms be parallel to each other? Mine have about 3-5 degrees of up angle when the setscrew is tightened on the flybar flats.

Thanks for all the help everyone!!
Steve

Helicopters don't fly, They beat the air into submission.

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02-17-2006 04:10 PM  12 years agoPost 12
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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My counter gear has a bit of up and down play as well. So I guess this means another disassembly (this time is the 4th)
Yes, but if you do it the easy way, it's not a big deal. Loosen the two top phillips head screws that hold the radio tray to the upper main frames. Then remove the two lower phillips head metal screws the hold the radio tray to the lower frames, and tilt the radio tray up. Remove the boom supports. Remove the four bolts that hold the lower frame set to the upper frame set, and then you can gently move the upper main frame set back and remove it from the lower set. At that time you can loosen the set screw in the pinion gear and the counter shaft with the lower gear will slide out the bottom.
Should the flybar control arms be parallel to each other? Mine have about 3-5 degrees of up angle when the setscrew is tightened on the flybar flats.
The flybar control arms should be parallel. It's not a big deal if they are not, but it's easier to setup if they are. The important thing is to have the flybar paddles parrallel with the swash plate when the swash plate is perpendicular to the main shaft.
I have visions of it exploding on the first hover.
There are litterly millions of Hawks flying without incident. Most of the things I've cautioned people about in the assembly of the Hawk are primarily for best performance/longivity. They will fly just fine right out of the box with minimal attention to detail, most of the time. The things to check are all of the set screws...the ones in the tail system, and in the drive system. The other major thing to be careful of is the glueing the blades together with the plastic doublers. In this area I know the instructions say to use epoxy and that will work if done right. I prefer to use thin CA and soak the wood with it...at least on the end grain of the wood blade. CA will wick into the wood and harden and in doing so, the wood itself is strengthened.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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02-17-2006 04:28 PM  12 years agoPost 13
smackay

rrNovice

Rochester, Vermont

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Thanks, Steve
You have been an invaluable source of wisdom for me during this build. Your advise makes this so much less intimidating. I have already glued the blades with epoxy but I have sort of decided to not use them and just get some CF Blades instead. They look so much more durable (And cooler too) Ive seen to many pictures of the wood blades splintering and don't know if I trust them all that much.

Thanks again Steve!!

Steve

Helicopters don't fly, They beat the air into submission.

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02-17-2006 06:44 PM  12 years agoPost 14
jmsilhy

rrApprentice

Austin, Texas

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Thanks Steve
I also want to thank you. I'm going to follow your advice and take the play out of the gear, although iI think it will take more than a few millimiters. What would you say is the best tool for this job? (what dremel bit, etc.)

Thanks again guys...

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02-17-2006 07:37 PM  12 years agoPost 15
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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jmsilhy and smackay,

Thank you both, it is my pleasure...I enjoy helping and sharing the knowledge I have acquired about the Century products when I can.

smackey,

If you decide to go with upgraded blades, I would suggest you look at the 570 mm blades. They have lots better lift than the 550's and the Toki you have has more than adequate power to pull them.

jmsilhy,

You can use almost anything to lengthen the flat on the shaft, even a small file, but I normally use a Dremel Tool with a cut off wheel. Just have to be very careful with power tools on small parts.

Good luck with your model builds.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterCentury Radikal G20-30 N640 Hawk Predator › Hawk counter gear pin. Please Help!!!
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