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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Autos with HH or rate mode?
02-09-2006 09:58 PM  12 years agoPost 1
Panomaniac

rrApprentice

Croatia - Adriatic coast

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So, simple question: Are you guys using HH mode during autos or you put gyro into rate mode. I just watched Ray's DVD collection, and he is using rate mode (?) and 0 tail pitch. I just cannot realize any advantages of that setup over HH mode. Also he is using non driven tail on Raptor50

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02-09-2006 10:14 PM  12 years agoPost 2
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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It makes absolutely no difference. When this came up a few weeks ago I shot 50 autos, 25 in rate mode and 25 in HH. I couldn't tell any difference.

If RR wants to use a non driven tail that's his prerogative but I'm not going back to the mid 80's just because some talking head in a video does.

TM

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02-09-2006 10:34 PM  12 years agoPost 3
Red9301

rrApprentice

London UK

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Rays theory gets twisted at times on his DVD. Read lots and make your own mind up. Collective, aileron, his distate of ccpm, his dislike of driven tail rotors and his 'brand new 3 point theory' leave much to be researched. Many of his mixes dont make sense either - notice how he even is surprised by this himself and end up switching most of it off when on the field!

Ray may be authoritative, but thats his opinion, and I rekon his DVD is sloppy at best - more planning, less haste please Ray! I wish I could use a Mac based video editor and charge that much for it. Bah. Hes possibly a relic - no offence Ray, your a star really. Theres loads of good info in there, just dont follow all of it 'ad-verbatim'. His book is much better. At least he bigs up Runryder

Cheers

Red

Making crashing an art form...

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02-09-2006 11:29 PM  12 years agoPost 4
Steamy

rrApprentice

UK

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autos
Try a pirouetting auto then you dont need the gyro LMAO

ooh my god ,, i spent all the shopping money on helis DOH!!

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02-09-2006 11:54 PM  12 years agoPost 5
looseblades

rrVeteran

ocean gate N.J. usa

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i leave it in heading hold all the time, one less thing to deal with.

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02-09-2006 11:57 PM  12 years agoPost 6
Leif

rrElite Veteran

USA

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IF your tail is non-driven, then a HH gyro can give you a surprise during a power-recovery as it attempts to lock onto the last good heading you had. This only impacts power-recoveries, where you abort the auto and add engine power to pull out for another run.

If your tail is driven, or you intend to take the auto to completion then it doesn't matter whether the gyro is HH or not.

Leif

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02-10-2006 12:06 AM  12 years agoPost 7
B.Hofferth

rrApprentice

walkerton in.

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leif, exactly!

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02-10-2006 12:06 AM  12 years agoPost 8
zoom boy

rrKey Veteran

N.E. Lincolnshire UK

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Normal mode with a driven tail you will need a mixer to centre the tail blades activated by the same switch as throttle hold.

However if you have a flame out then you would need to be quick to switch to throttle hold and then get the tail back where it was manually.

Because of that it would be better to use HH with a driven tail, with a non driven tail however it doesnt matter (except for what Lief said, which would be an intentional auto anyway so you should be ready for that)

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02-10-2006 12:24 AM  12 years agoPost 9
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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IF your tail is non-driven, then a HH gyro can give you a surprise during a power-recovery as it attempts to lock onto the last good heading you had. This only impacts power-recoveries, where you abort the auto and add engine power to pull out for another run.
Here's a newsflash. A rate gyro will do the same thing, seen it happen. Neither a rate gyro nor HH gyro is fast enough to overcome the sudden application of power.
HH with a driven tail you will need a mixer to centre the tail blades activated by the same switch as throttle hold.
In the old days, rudder offset in TH did the same thing.

TM

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02-10-2006 12:26 AM  12 years agoPost 10
zoom boy

rrKey Veteran

N.E. Lincolnshire UK

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I'm not so sure its the gyro or the mode thats not fast enough, its more likely to be that even with a super fast servo like the 9254 or 9256 they are still not instant.

Thanks TMoore, you just made me see an error I made, I meant to say normal mode not HH, its corrected now, thankyou

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02-10-2006 12:34 AM  12 years agoPost 11
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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In the old days of wire drive tail rotors with non driven tails, a sudden application of power in the case of a panic recovery of an aborted auto, would force the heli to swap ends in the blink of an eye. I've seen hundreds of machines rolled into balls like this. I've done a few myself.

TM

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02-10-2006 01:06 AM  12 years agoPost 12
rroback

rrElite Veteran

Irvine (UCI), Ca

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I bought a used raptor 50 last year, that i converted to electric, and after starting to practice autos a month or so ago, I realized it didn't have a driven tail ( well, acutally, I realized raptor's come with driven tails). So I praciced a lot of auto's without a driven tail ( and still in hh mode) and then got the right gear, and started doing driven auto's, with hh mode on.... honestly, driven or no driven is pointless. my raptor would maybe turn 180 degrees from a quite high auto... not a big deal for anyone actually considering auto's. driven is a nice touch, but certainly not needed.

Rhett..... I can't fly, but the Profi sure can.

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02-10-2006 10:47 AM  12 years agoPost 13
zoom boy

rrKey Veteran

N.E. Lincolnshire UK

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In the old days of wire drive tail rotors with non driven tails, a sudden application of power in the case of a panic recovery of an aborted auto, would force the heli to swap ends in the blink of an eye. I've seen hundreds of machines rolled into balls like this. I've done a few myself.
I think I did something like that with my concept 30 many moons ago, still it was a survivor

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02-10-2006 11:03 AM  12 years agoPost 14
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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If you dont have a driven tail it doesnt matter, I have a driven tail and in HH and had to set the gain higher in TH,because it tail would not hold straight at the bottom of the auto when positve pitch was applied. If the tail tries to kick around when you bail in an auto you can delay the throttle, so it comes in slower. DOUG

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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02-10-2006 01:13 PM  12 years agoPost 15
falcon

rrKey Veteran

UK

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That driven tail soaks up quiet a bit of your precious power.

www.m0kwr.com

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02-10-2006 01:54 PM  12 years agoPost 16
lrogers

rrKey Veteran

Mobile, Al

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A timely question. I was wondering the same thing. To date my only auto was an accident caused by a fuel draw problem. It was a successful auto and thanks to you guys suggesting I change the OEM clunk line, that problem has been solved.
When I get to the point of doing autos for fun, I want the best set up possible.

Larry Rogers - R/C Helicopter Pilot

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02-10-2006 01:56 PM  12 years agoPost 17
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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When I get to the point of doing autos for fun, I want the best set up possible.
Yeah, me too.

TM

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