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HomeAircraftHelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › Fury alignment woe
02-08-2006 01:35 AM  12 years agoPost 1
flyingfitz

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Edwardsville, IL - USA

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I have read most of the posts about engine/clutch alignment and can't find the solution to this one. Please help out.

I have a fury, OS 91 CSpec, metal fan combination.
I have dialed the fan to the motor to within .001.
I removed the clutch dampers to more easily align and set the fan hub to clutch gap.
I have loosened up the motor mount on the frame and loosely attached the engine to the mount.
I have two sets of feeler gages to precisely set the gap.
When I slide the motor all the way up to bottom the fan hub against the clutch, there is a .015 gap on the right side of the fan hub. The only way to eliminate this gap is to remove all of the motor to mount screws and slide the engine to one side of the mount. This position will not allow the screws to thread in to the mount.
I don't think that there is any way to loosen the clutch stack and correct this problem.
This problem is different from the fore/aft clutch gap because I really can't shim the motor to correct it.
I can't imagine trying to remove the clutch stack and overbore all of the holes to try and correct this. I expect much more out of the manufacturing process on a machine of this level.

Who can help?

Fitz

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02-08-2006 01:39 AM  12 years agoPost 2
pilotError

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Long Island, NY

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8.18
For the 8.18 gear ratio, I thought there were two engine shims that were needed. It sounds like you might be missing those.

Mike...

Good Judgement comes from Experience. Great Judgement comes from Bad Experience.

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02-08-2006 02:16 AM  12 years agoPost 3
flyingfitz

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Edwardsville, IL - USA

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I have one set of shims. When the shims are installed under the engine it has an effect on the fore/aft gap. Unless there are shims that I am not aware of, these shims will not help.

If there are some required shims that shim the engine left or right, or if there are some shims that go up in the clutch stack that I don't know about then I ask for your insight. I am running a 8.18 set up.

Fitz

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02-08-2006 04:16 AM  12 years agoPost 4
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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Drill the engine case holes larger the required amount. It probably won't take more than .010-.015 Go a drill size larger and try the engine, repeat as necessary. Don't mess with the frames. I think the engine shims are made in.046-.080-.090 you may need to make some from shim stock depending how fussy you are. I think the 8.18 takes .046 and .080 shim. Chris

Chris

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02-08-2006 07:06 AM  12 years agoPost 5
u.k. sailor

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cambs uk

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surerly as the engine cases are all from a mould and the fan dials out okay then the issue must be to do with whether the two halves of the engine mount align with each other?
FLYINGFITZ if you dial guage the top of the fan hub is there the same discrepancy? personaly i would be reluctant to drill the engine in case you decide to use it in another model, better to track down what is responsible. are you saying there is no gap one side? if so does it help if you back the engine down slightly? and try to get the gap the same

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02-08-2006 11:20 AM  12 years agoPost 6
DS 8717

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I had to slot the holes in mine so i could shift the cltuch bearing block a little,mine had some front to rear misalignment. They should have slotted the frames like the old xcells so you could align things. I heard of quite a few people having alignment problems. DOUG

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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02-08-2006 07:26 PM  12 years agoPost 7
flyingfitz

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Edwardsville, IL - USA

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Airdodger - I am very reluctant to drill on the engine. I think that this is a MA problem not an OS problem. Also, the way I see it, adding shims under the engine will only correct a fore/aft problem, not a right/left problem.

UK Sailor - The fan hub is dialed to within .001 of the crankshaft. The gap is between the fan hub and the clutch. When the hub is seated to the clutch on the left side there is a .015 gap on the right side. The fore/aft alignment is dead on. Moving the engine up and down has no effect on the problem. You may be onto something with the engine mount. I think that Ill try and swap the mount side to side and see if that helps.

Douglas - Unless I am missing something slotting the holes to shift the clutch bearing will only help the fore aft gap. My problem lies in that the vertical line of the clutch and/or the engine/hub is slightly out of wack to the reference frame of the helicopter (whatever that may be. mainshaft?)

Thanks for the input. If anyone else has any insight please let me know.

Fitz

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02-08-2006 08:03 PM  12 years agoPost 8
looseblades

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ocean gate N.J. usa

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enlarging the engine holes a bit will not hurt anything, i have done this serval times. i went two number sizes up. i was able to get both off mine with in a thou. for kicks i just added some locktite around the shank of the bolt to help remove some of the gap. do not really think it was needed. i check the alingment a after a few flights and nothing has moved. yes , the engine will come out with out any problems.
roy

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02-08-2006 09:52 PM  12 years agoPost 9
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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What makes you think OS drills the holes more accurate then MA builds the frames. Drilling the engine is a non issue it affects nothing, and you have not screwed anything up. Who said anything about adding shims, just pointed out the ones that are made, and the size that should be used, and that the shims provided may not align the engine perfect front to back, so it(may) need to be corrected with a few thousands shim. I am quite aware that it will not shift side to side clearance, hence enlarging the engine holes. Chris

Chris

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02-08-2006 10:30 PM  12 years agoPost 10
u.k. sailor

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cambs uk

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flyingfitz i understood the problem from the first post but was trying to help locate the cause which seems a bit of a mystery, allways best if you can correct the cause of a problem rather than a way around it. Either way i hope you track down the cause and can get it fixed without too much drama. please let us know if you find the reason. As a thought have you tried the gap with the clutch driver rotated 180 degrees? not because it would correct the problem but if there is a difference it may show a problem here.

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02-09-2006 01:35 AM  12 years agoPost 11
flyingfitz

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Edwardsville, IL - USA

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Airdodger - I didn't mean to start a brush fire! I was just trying to be concise about the problem I am having. I appreciate all the responses that I am getting.

As far as my confidence in who can drill holes better? I owned several MA variants back in the early 90's. For a period of about ten years I didn't own any MA machines because of their inability to drill straight holes in their hardware, or produce a machine with a low parts count, that was not set up and maintenance intensive. Customer support seemed relative to who you spoke with on the phone.

Since that time, I have been impressed with the performance of the Fury. With some reluctance, I purchased my Fury last year at IRCHA. I am just now getting around to setting it up. You can imagine my second-guessing when I came to the realization that I may have turned the clock back 15 years when I purchased this machine based on the issue at hand. I had no idea that issues as basic as engine alignment would not have been solved on such a high end machine.

I have never had a hole problem with any OS that I have purchased. Carb problems, yes but hole problems no.

Based on this experience, I think that OS can drill a straighter hole than MA.

Keep Smiling and thanks for the suggestions!

Fitz

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02-09-2006 01:36 AM  12 years agoPost 12
flyingfitz

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Edwardsville, IL - USA

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UK Sailor - Thanks for the input. Rotating the clutch driver 180 degrees does not help.

Thanks

Fitz

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02-09-2006 02:35 AM  12 years agoPost 13
kthane

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Pensacola

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The way I see it you got 2 options.

Drill the holes out on the engine or contact MA. If alignment is way off, check to see if the motor mounts are identical.

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02-09-2006 07:49 AM  12 years agoPost 14
u.k. sailor

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cambs uk

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hi flyinfitz your welcome, unfortunately the next thoughts aren't so good and are no more than that my thoughts. Are they g10 frames?
the reason i ask is that i was told that one of the cost differences between g10 and carbon is the carbon is machined 4 sheets at a time but the g10 can be done 12 sheets at a time. I wonder if the cutter is a little worn and your frames are off the bottom of the pile they are slightly off.
Personaly i feel your frustration, but wish to say that you are probably at the stage where if the engine mounts are correct you will need to ease one or two points to permit alignment, and that I have two Fury's and had my issues with them BUT and it's a big BUT, they fly so well that I want to try a Stratus, as well, and will have the Fury as one of my two main models for this year. I am also getting it together to have an Avant ready, so it remains to be seen how they compare, which will probably come down to taste.
A guy I used to fly with tried to sell me a metal stacked frame MA machine but when i looked at how complicated it was i wanted no part of it, and had been told by a very experienced flyer that even a hard landing could knock it out of alignment. So if you have the ability and patience to build those model you will have little trouble with the Fury once this is sorted, and i think absolutely love the way it flys.
As kthane says perhaps a word with MA may help i hope you find the answer without too much more effort

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02-09-2006 03:08 PM  12 years agoPost 15
flyingfitz

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Edwardsville, IL - USA

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UK Sailor - I am convinced that If built true the first time, the machine will be reliable and fly great. This week I will try and swap the mount. If this doesn't help, I think I have come to terms with drilling on that $90 engine case. Ill let you know how it goes.

A good friend of mine who went through the MA hassle with me back in the day bought a Stratus this year at IRCHA. We agreed to jump off the MA cliff together and see if things had improved over the years. This prompted me to buy the Fury. After all, the parts count has come down by several orders of magnatude!

The stratus kit was an excellent looking kit. The digital PDF instruction manual with full color photos was awesome and the machine went together great for him. He dialed the fan to the engine, but did no engine to clutch alignment. The machine has shown no significant wear so I think that this problem is solved.

He only had one issue with the tailrotor output shaft. Evidently they had a batch that was not hardened at the proper phase of the production process and made a weak spot where the gear is attached to the shaft. MA was very helpful in correcting this problem.

He says the machine flys great and he is very happy with it. A big improvement over the traditional XL in every way. The prospect of crash repair costs is the only thing that has him concerned.

Thanks again for the input.

Fitz

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02-09-2006 04:15 PM  12 years agoPost 16
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida US

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Lugs
Fitz, overdrill the motor. The case is a casting and they do vary just a little from case to case and batch to batch. All critical internal alignments for the motor are machined into the case to make sure they are true. Mounting holes are not. I overdrill ALL of my motor, OS and YS to be SURE I have the clearance for correct alignment. It's no biggie.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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02-09-2006 05:34 PM  12 years agoPost 17
u.k. sailor

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cambs uk

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i have apparently got the information about the frames being stacked for cutting wrong, they are currently cut one sheet at a time so this should mean they are accurate, let us know how you go with getting the model finished.

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02-12-2006 05:15 PM  12 years agoPost 18
tylerexpress

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Bossier City, LA

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flyingfitz
What did you end up doing to fix this prob?
Did you enlarge the holes? How big did you go?

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02-12-2006 06:58 PM  12 years agoPost 19
flyingfitz

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Edwardsville, IL - USA

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Still investigating. Thought sure it was a tweaked vertical channel but after taking things apart found out it was not.

I loosened all of the components and tried tightening things up with a bias toward fixing the issue. It got things significantly closer. I am within about .006 now.

I have still not fully resolved the issue but will post the solution when I found it.

Fitz

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02-12-2006 11:00 PM  12 years agoPost 20
tylerexpress

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Bossier City, LA

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well keep us posted on this and googluck

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HomeAircraftHelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › Fury alignment woe
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