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HomeAircraftHelicopterFuel-Helicopters New or Limited ActivityQuickWW › Start Bearing Failure
02-07-2006 03:17 PM  12 years agoPost 1
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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I have went through 3 one way bearings in the last few months, and I'm trying to figure out why. I dial indicate everything having to do with the engine when I reassemble. I take great pains trying to make sure the engine is lining up properly when I tighten it up. I have tried putting a little grease in the one-way, and I have tried it without grease. Seems to last about the same amount of time. I have tried a bearing from HHI, Boca, and another vender, but all the same result. I believe all but one of the bearings was made by INA. The bearing that came stock (INA) lasted for over a year, I don't know what I could be doing wrong. The last bearing ended up looking like metal ground up mush when I disassembled it last night. Does anyone have any "magic" tips for getting this bearing to last more than say 20 tanks? This is on a Quick 30 learner.

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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02-07-2006 03:27 PM  12 years agoPost 2
z11355

rrMaster

New England

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you should be using light machine oil or ATF, not grease or dry.

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02-07-2006 03:32 PM  12 years agoPost 3
GCguru

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Exit 164, NJ

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I had one a while back and had the same problem. Make sure your not pushing the engine up to hard when tightning down the engine mount bolts. Also, check that you have pressed the bearing in fully, and check clutch runout. If youve replaced the clutch when you replaced the first bearing, the hole may not be on true center and is causing binding on the shaft. I've found an offcenter condition in their clutch bells also. Last resort, check the start shaft support bearing for wear, then check your crankshaft for play and smoothness.

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02-07-2006 03:44 PM  12 years agoPost 4
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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I've replaced the bearings that the start shaft ride in. There is minimal play in the engine shaft, it's a new engine that is just broken in good. I wonder about the off-center condition with the clutch. I have a good clutch bell. It looks just like the one they use on the "suprerlearner" with the vent holes in it. As far as dial indicating, I know it is darn hard to get these bits to be less than .003. It's funny, I never dial indicated anything on my Hirobo birds, and never had these type of problems. I love the heli, it's just this is driving me nuts.

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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02-07-2006 03:44 PM  12 years agoPost 5
Quick Worldwide

rrKey Veteran

Coopersburg, PA

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hI,

I may also suggest using locktite in a new lower start shaft bearing.

If you use lock tite on the top of the pinion gear when inserting the clutch bell into bearing block it will prevent wear on the bearing & the pinion.

Both of the previous suggestion are also very useful...

Thanks Irwin

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02-07-2006 03:47 PM  12 years agoPost 6
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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I will try the locktite in the lower bearing when I put it back together. I have one more one-way bearing and shaft to spare. We'll see if the mentioned suggestions will solve the problem.

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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02-07-2006 03:54 PM  12 years agoPost 7
GCguru

rrNovice

Exit 164, NJ

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Irwin
I'm guessing what your saying is the red loctite is so the one way won't ride up or down in it's bore? I never tried loctite in there but then again I never had the bearing move on me.

shuttlepilot,
But from what you said it sure sounds like a out of round clutch especially if it was never checked. Notice that when you loosen the 2 clutch screws a turn, the clutch itself can move around a tiny bit. I bet thats the problem.

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02-07-2006 04:03 PM  12 years agoPost 8
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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GCguru

I dial indicated it. Always have on this machine. It's seems to be pretty hard to get it to .003. I wouldn't dare try running this one without a dial indicator.

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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02-07-2006 04:16 PM  12 years agoPost 9
GCguru

rrNovice

Exit 164, NJ

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Ok,
Check the runout on the start shaft, it could be bent.
If its ok, I suspect the engine is out of alignment, I always run thick washers on G10 frames at the mounts, as they tend to crush up a bit over time then the motor starts to shift during flight. good luck.

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02-07-2006 06:51 PM  12 years agoPost 10
Quick Worldwide

rrKey Veteran

Coopersburg, PA

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Also make sure you NEVER try to start the motor if it is hydrolocked

THIS IS A SURE TO RUIN THE BEARING....ALWAYS PRE START YOU MOTOR WITH NO HEAT & FULL COLLECTIVE,,,,THEN LOWER COLLECTIVE & ADD TRIM....THE MOTORS WILL START IN 1/2 SECOND....

iRWIN

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02-07-2006 07:17 PM  12 years agoPost 11
shuttlepilot

rrElite Veteran

Mullins, South Carolina

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Oh yea, I know about that one. That can ruin a connecting rod too if your're not careful!

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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02-07-2006 07:43 PM  12 years agoPost 12
Quick Worldwide

rrKey Veteran

Coopersburg, PA

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THERE ARE SO MANY TRICKS TO THE TRADE THAT 20 YEARS OF PROFESSIONAL
24/7 ON HANDS EXPERIENCE HAS TOUGHT US FROM NITRO TO GAS...NOW TOO EP POWER...

FROM in house DESIGN TO PROTOYPE MY LIFE as well as my staff in the hobby biz as been a dream for us.......I love what I do....So does my staff here in the USA, Europe as well as in HK & China...

WE ARE THE LUCKY ONE'S AS WE LOVE WHAT WE DO....

I need the market to appreciate the effort on our company...put The BS in the past & enjoy the future...

WE CAN'T BE SUCCESSFUL WITHOUT THE SUPPORT OF THE MARKET PLACE.

If you got questions we got the answers...

THANKS FOR YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT....

QWW

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02-08-2006 01:42 AM  12 years agoPost 13
MikeInMobile

rrElite Veteran

Mobile, Alabama

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Check the start shaft for hardness. I purchased three of these shafts two years ago, and NONE of them had adequete hardness for the job (I could cut them with an Xacto knife). I ended up cutting down a start shaft for a Raptor and used it ...... has NEVER failed me since !

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02-08-2006 02:48 AM  12 years agoPost 14
shuttlepilot

rrElite Veteran

Mullins, South Carolina

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That has crossed my mine. I think I will check the one I have now and see if it will pass the xacto test.

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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02-09-2006 02:55 PM  12 years agoPost 15
Dr.J

rrVeteran

Ontario, Canada

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Shuttlepilot,

I've had these same problems and have finally resolved the issues. What you say about indicating the fan hub is true, it's difficult to center. I found that by adding a bit of scotch tape near the top of the crankshaft, I was able to get it to run out less than 0.003".

The problem you're experiencing, however, may have to do with the fact that many of the main gears on these machines, while machine cut, are often off center. I think the one I'm currently using is off by at least 0.006". What this means is that you have to make sure that you have plenty of clearance between the pinion and main gear. It's best to find the high spot on the main, mark and then set the lash. If you don't account for this, then, every time the high spot, on the main, comes around, it beats on the pinion and its bearings, destroying them in the process.

The other thing is that the Quick 60 Pro was developed in conjunction with the TSK Acro Star (which is what I have) and the clutch/pinion/main gear setup is borrowed from the TSK 50. After having gone through your experiences and knowing this to be the case, I discarded the one-way start bearing. I removed the start bearing and had a start shaft machined to press fit into the clutch and now I have a start bearing, KSJ, on my start wand, which, IMO, is a much better setup. I now have no more one-way bearing burnout, and the machine is quiet and operates smoothly.

I hope this helps,

John

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02-09-2006 03:30 PM  12 years agoPost 16
shuttlepilot

rrElite Veteran

Mullins, South Carolina

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Dr.J

I have been thinking about the permanent shaft in the clutch as well. I think that would be a better setup. On the main gear, actually I have one that it pretty darn true. I've been running it for over 2 years and it's really smooth. The problems that I am having now just started after I replaced the original that came in the kit. It lasted about 1 1/2 years. It just seems that I am having a run of bad luck with it lately. I have one more shaft and bearing to try, and when that fails I will be going to the press fit shaft with the one way on the starter. If you can give me any insight on the KSJ bearing and start wand setup that you have I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you
Phil

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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02-09-2006 07:18 PM  12 years agoPost 17
Dr.J

rrVeteran

Ontario, Canada

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Phil,

I had at least three of those start bearings fail and after the third one, I replaced it with a solid shaft. You need to dial in the start shaft, once pressed into the clutch and installed on the engine. Do the clutch end first, obviously, and then the other end (you can actually bend it true) and once it's aligned with the crank shaft, you can install the assembly in the frames, adjust the pinion/main lash, engine height and then, last, but not least, install the start hex cup. It's a simple and beauty solution.

I have the KSJ start wand:

http://www4.mailordercentral.com/he...p?number=101715

and, actually, it's a bit of a fussy thing. I'm not sure if there are better units available. The problem is getting it to run true on the starter motor and I guess it also depends on the starter you have. Once it's true, though, it's relatively problem free. And, it's much easier to service the torrington bearing than when it's inside a heli.

Glad to hear you have a true main. I have a new spare and will check it and if it's any better than the other two I have, I'll go with it (will keep my fingers crossed).

Good luck and if there's anything I can do to help, please let me know.

John

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02-09-2006 07:26 PM  12 years agoPost 18
shuttlepilot

rrElite Veteran

Mullins, South Carolina

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Thanks for all of the help. I'm goint to try this last bearing and shaft combo, and if that fails I'm going with your solution. I have to use these last ones, since I already have them. Thanks again.

Phil

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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02-09-2006 07:29 PM  12 years agoPost 19
Dr.J

rrVeteran

Ontario, Canada

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You're welcome. Good luck, I hope it's stable for you and keep us posted.

John

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03-01-2006 05:15 AM  12 years agoPost 20
shuttlepilot

rrElite Veteran

Mullins, South Carolina

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So far so good with the new bearing and shaft install. I guess I have done maybe 8 starts so far and run through just under 1/2 gallon and everything is going good....don't say it too loud. When I get more time to fly, we'll see how everything works out. The closest I could get the runout was .004 after trying everything in the book that my patience would allow. Hopefully I will get good service out of this setup.

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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HomeAircraftHelicopterFuel-Helicopters New or Limited ActivityQuickWW › Start Bearing Failure
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