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Other › Stretch didn't work for me....
02-06-2006 11:31 PM  12 years agoPost 1
dwoel

rrNovice

Millville, New Jersey

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I thought maybe I could get a good discussion going with some frustration that I just experienced. I'd be interested in hearing some thoughts on this. I stretched my VE, and absolutely could not get the blades to track. first I'll give my set-up.
Carbon frames
HS 85's all around
Hacker c40-8l
17 tooth pinion
CC45 ESC
JR 460t gyro
Thrust bearings in head
KSJ alum rotor hub
TP 3s3p 6000 lipo
Stretched boom / belt
MS 470 blades
What have I forgotten

Anyway, I can get the blades to track great as I spool up, but just as I am about to lift off, one blade will pop out of track terribly, causing huge vibrations. My thoughts are that maybe the plastic head parts just can't take this much mass. Do you need to go to an all metal head to do the stretch? I put the stock boom and belt back on and dropped to a 16 tooth gear and MS 420 carbon blades, and they track perfectly. So what do I need to do here? Any thoughts would be appreciated, or maybe someone could use some new 470 blades, a boom and belt.

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02-07-2006 12:31 AM  12 years agoPost 2
Ralphw

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Spring, TX

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Any chance that the thrust bearings are in backwards on one or both sides. Also check the sequence of the parts on the spindle shaft and the condition of the head dampers. One more possibility would be a very slightly bent spindle shaft.

I do know folks who have stretched with success using the stock head. You're one step ahead of the battle with the metal head block. If you haven't done the head mods that Ron Osinsky suggests, try looking for them on here (I think he uses the screen name GMRO on here).

Ralph W.
"Life's Short, Fly Fast"

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02-07-2006 11:33 PM  12 years agoPost 3
dwoel

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Millville, New Jersey

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Ralphw.....Thanks for the thoughts. I was really careful in the installation of those thrust bearings, but that doesn't guarantee that they are in right. I guess I'll need to strip it down and double check. I did not install Ron Osinskis' fuel tube mod, but did do the trick with the washers in the grips to allow them to fit over the spindle and compress the dampers a bit. I don't feel much play in the grips at all. The dampers are original and could be a contributing factor. I had replaced the spindle, and flybar just a little while ago. I'll take a close look at the bearing instalation. By the way, I recently saw a post where you made a comment about possibly parting out your VE. Say it isn't so. I have basically gotten to where I am with this machine because of your advice, and Misskimos advice to everyone. I still say that even though the VE is an old design, it meets my needs very well. The only way I think I would make a move at this point is if a newer design could use my motor and batteries. Now where are all my tools. Thanks again Ralphw

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02-07-2006 11:53 PM  12 years agoPost 4
Ralphw

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Spring, TX

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By the way, I recently saw a post where you made a comment about possibly parting out your VE. Say it isn't so.
Hi Dwoel,

Yeah...I'm afraid it's true. The only reason I haven't done it already is that I'm stuck in a wheelchair for a couple more weeks and can't get the packing and shipping done until I'm mobile again. As for providing help...I'm not going anywhere and I'm still flying so I'll be tossing my two cents worth out there whenever I think it will help.

I still love my VE but it was my first heli and I've pretty well outgrown it's abilities now.

About your problem...one other thing comes to mind. Are you using shims for the blades? If so, are they the correct thickness or are they leaving a little "wiggle" room. I can't remember if the MS blades needed shims in the stock grips or not.

Hope that helps,

Ralph W.
"Life's Short, Fly Fast"

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02-08-2006 08:26 PM  12 years agoPost 5
Hoverdown3K

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Rochester, New York

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Could there be a chance the something is bent? Did you check all the shafts? feathering shaft as well?

-= I know there is Money in RC helicopters. I put it there=-

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02-09-2006 12:08 AM  12 years agoPost 6
dwoel

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Millville, New Jersey

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Well guys, I had to laugh out loud when I read Ralpw's last post about the shims. Last night I was sitting around pondering the teardown of the head, and it just hit me like a bat. When I purchased the 470 blades, I measured the root and compared it to the 420's, and the stock woodies. I fly the 420's with the spacers that came with them from FXaeromodel. I put the 470's away till I had everything else ready for the stretch. So when I did the stretch and mounted the new blades, what did I do? I mounted them with no shim. The mind is a terrible thing to waste . Actually I'm lucky I didn't toss a blade. I had printed out the entire stretch thread from rc groups a while back. I pulled that out and it verified what you are now saying. Back then, they said to use 1mm on each side of the blade for a total of 2mm per blade. I dont know if MS has changed or if they were using a different brand, but I only measure a difference of 1mm per blade between the blade and grip. I'm having some spacers made up. In my original post on my set-up, I said what am I forgetting. What I forgot to list is that I have installed the KSJ alum swash. This should tighten things up a bit for me also. Hoverdown... I had recently checked and replaced quite a few parts including main shaft feathering shaft, tail shaft and bolts. The worst part was the flybar shaft. I couldn't beleive how many bends were in that part. well once again thanks to all, and I hope to get the new spacers from the shop tomorrow. I'll report on any success.

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02-09-2006 03:06 AM  12 years agoPost 7
Ralphw

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Spring, TX

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Woohoo...hope that's the fix!!

Ralph W.
"Life's Short, Fly Fast"

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02-12-2006 09:31 PM  12 years agoPost 8
helijunky

rrApprentice

s elgin il

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hi,ralphw.ijust converted my voyager to stretched version using 470ms blades using a 3cell lipo battery and a hacker c4010s motor with a 16 tooth pinion.is this too much for this motor to handle.what pitch settings and throttle curves should i use.thanks the reason why i ask is that iam new to this forum and youre the only one i see that has luck whith this setup.thanks

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02-20-2006 04:13 AM  12 years agoPost 9
g2loq

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Montreal - QC - Canada

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My stretched version
If you are interesteed:
http://www.runryder.com/t236726p1/

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02-20-2006 11:25 PM  12 years agoPost 10
dwoel

rrNovice

Millville, New Jersey

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Well I finally got to go out for just a few minutes tonight , and I think I've finally got it. I've gotten the tracking really close, so we'll see if it stays that way when I go out again. It's hard to watch tracking and fly at the same time. I was alone tonight, so I'll check again when my son is around to lend his eyes. For what I had though, it did seem to park in a hover much better than before, and at the same time was more responsive. Just like you guys said it would. Cooooool. Going to the Wram show Friday. My wallet is singing. Would like to pick up a scale fuse for my TREX. Thanks to all for the guideance.

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05-31-2006 11:26 PM  12 years agoPost 11
helijunky

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s elgin il

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will the 470blades work without the stretch?

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06-01-2006 12:47 AM  12 years agoPost 12
Ralphw

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Spring, TX

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will the 470blades work without the stretch?
No...you must extend the tailboom to use the longer blades.

Ralph W.
"Life's Short, Fly Fast"

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06-03-2006 11:20 PM  12 years agoPost 13
helijunky

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s elgin il

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hi ralph,will 440 blades work without the stretch?i cant remember what the original ones were thanks.

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06-05-2006 02:49 AM  12 years agoPost 14
dwoel

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Millville, New Jersey

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I don't want to step on Ralph, but let me say that I am currently using SAB 440mm blades along with the QJ 15 metal head (no stretch)and love them. The original wood blades were 440mm by the way. Ralph, have you found something better? I was using the MS 420's but the grip spacing is perfect for the SAB's. No spacers needed.

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06-05-2006 03:53 AM  12 years agoPost 15
Ralphw

rrKey Veteran

Spring, TX

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Dwoel and Helijunky,

I guess my last post disappeared into the ether....very strange .

Dwoel, you are exactly right...the originals were 440 in length. I never tried the SAB's but if they are anything like the other SAB's I've used they are good blades and no, I haven't found anything better in that size range. I do not know for sure whether the SAB's will fit the stock grips though. The MS 420's will work in the stock grips but they will need spacers.

Hope that helps,

Ralph W.
"Life's Short, Fly Fast"

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06-05-2006 11:41 AM  12 years agoPost 16
helijunky

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s elgin il

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thanks guys.i was asking because heli hobby has helimax carbon blades 440 for around 30.00 instead of 60.00 for the ms 420.

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06-05-2006 09:48 PM  12 years agoPost 17
dwoel

rrNovice

Millville, New Jersey

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Ralph and Helijunky,
The Sab blades have a root of 12 mm. The stock grips are 10 mm so no, the SAB's will not fit in the stock grips (The QJ 15 grips are 12 mm). Helijunky, the $30.00 price tag sounds great. I would however make every effort to find out what the root size is. As Ralph points out, the MS Blades need spacers I believe the 420's have a 6 mm root and the 470's have a 9 mm root. It's OK to use spacers, but dont stress the grips by opening them up above the 10 mm. Hope this helps.

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