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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Glow vs Electric side by side price comparison...
02-06-2006 01:41 PM  12 years agoPost 41
kaptkaos

rrKey Veteran

Miami FL

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With electric you have to buy all you electricity up front, large initial investment and risky, it can be lost in a crash or damaged by improper use. You also have to charge the stupid things with expensive chargers.

I can buy my gas a gallon at a time and fly continually without worry.

I love the new electric stuff, but I am not ready to give up my nitros just yet.

If you give a Chimp a gun, and the Chimp shoots, DONT BLAME THE CHIMP!!!!

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02-06-2006 02:34 PM  12 years agoPost 42
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Okay....thanks for positive inputs...
Seems like the bottom line is that electrics "start up" cost is more expensive MAINLY due to the price and longevity of Lipos.

I was under the impression (must have been either mislead or misread) that lipos had somewhere of 500 cycles...half of NiCs. But it seems that 200 is a more realistic number. Give or take a few depending on use and abuse.

It goes to show that this hobby "level of enjoyment" is directly proportional to how deep your pocket is...gonna change my signature.

So I guess the next "debatable" question is...what is more cost effective...glow or gasser helis? Factoring in maintenance as well as fuel consumption. Time for some searching.

Once again...thanks to those that "get it" as far as how this forun is "supposed" to work unlike the keyboard nazis that have nothing else better to do than run up their posting with bashing and unconstructive inputs. Obviously "Team Player" is not in their vocabulary. If only the host would remind them of such and boot those that dont "get it". Good thing for the "stinker" list where I dont have to read their crap anymore. You know who you are...so don't bother replying as it wont display on my screen. Pretty much like talking to yourself in the mirror. Remember this...if you are not part of the solution you are definitely part of the problem. Touche.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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02-06-2006 03:12 PM  12 years agoPost 43
GScott

rrElite Veteran

Lewis Center, OH

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I would guess maintenance costs would be very close. I've been flying my Sceadu for a year and have only had to replace a defective clutch. I think most nitro maintenance is related to vibrations and a well setup helicopter should have minimal vibrations. Ironically my Swift vibrates much worse than anything on my Sceadu.

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02-07-2006 01:21 AM  12 years agoPost 44
Leif

rrElite Veteran

USA

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what is more cost effective...glow or gasser helis?
Fuel-wise, gassers are cheaper than glow helis. For that matter, Jet-A and kerosene are also cheaper than nitro fuel, so turbine helis are also economical from a fuel perspective.

Unfortunately, these helis also tend to be rather large to accomodate the larger engines. As a result purchase price and crash costs are quite a bit higher, not to mention the cost of the engine itself. Gas engines are usually quite a bit more expensive than glow engines, and turbines are out of the question for most of us.

The 30-class nitro heli is the most economical heli to purchase and fly. Kits and parts are inexpensive, and there is plenty of performance for the average sport flyer. This is why "the market" has decided this is a good entry-level configuration.

Of course, your mileage may vary. Most pilots factor crash costs into the overall cost of owning and flying a heli.

Also, I disagree with your new tag line. You can have a blast with this hobby without spending a fortune. I fly mostly 30-class nitro helis, and have lots of fun doing it. Many pilots enjoy flying less expensive machines, as you don't have to be afraid of crashing. I can crash and still keep smiling.

Leif

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02-07-2006 03:02 AM  12 years agoPost 45
vince

rrApprentice

Victoria BC Canada

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I just kinda scaned through the posts and assuming you get 500 cycles to a pack would be real nice. If you could even get half that there would be alot more e-machines out there.
count on 30 to 50 cycles and anything over that and is a bonus.
The biggest killer of these packs that no one ever talks about is the fact when you pull current the voltage drops. as the voltage drops the current increases. Then it just cascades from there until the pack gives out or the motor.
By the time they come out with controllers that will not let the motor damage the packs (controllers that pull x limit from each cell in the pack)batteries will be alot more robust.
this is just my 2 cents/observation.
As for the mess... mess = smoke.
How can you paint the Sky if your brush is dry

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02-07-2006 03:24 AM  12 years agoPost 46
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Leif wrote: Also, I disagree with your new tag line. You can have a blast with this hobby without spending a fortune. I fly mostly 30-class nitro helis, and have lots of fun doing it. Many pilots enjoy flying less expensive machines, as you don't have to be afraid of crashing. I can crash and still keep smiling.
My new tag line holds true if you think about it. Not only do you have to spend well over $600 (being humble) to get into it, you also have to be able to afford crashes, fuel, maintenance, local flying club field (unless you own a decent piece of property...I don't) AMA...so definitely not cheap as compared to picking up a baseball, or basketball for that matter. Then theres macrame.

So if you "really" can't afford it you can't really enjoy it as you are more worried about your pocket...and the wife, if you have one of those. Better make sure she gets has that pearl necklace before you think about yourself.

This specially holds true when starting out where most of the "crashes" happen (unless you're gifted) and you learn to get the heli home in one piece every time.

I do have a blast and laugh every time I goof as it make no sense to get pissed at myself for such. I always count my blessings when my crash is less than what it looked like when you heard that big KABOOM and pieces flying all over.

Take if for what its worth...with a good sense of humor.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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02-07-2006 03:41 AM  12 years agoPost 47
Leif

rrElite Veteran

USA

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definitely not cheap as compared to picking up a baseball, or basketball for that matter.
True, but compared to any of the following common hobbies it's quite reasonable: Golf, Speedboats, sailboats, sports cars, race cars, mountain climbing, skydiving, hunting, strippers, bars, girlfriends... the list goes on.

A thousand every year or two in kits, parts and upgrades, plus a few hundred per year in fuel can be a heck of a lot of fun. Sheesh, my wife spends more on the kids' dance lessons.

Leif

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02-07-2006 04:10 AM  12 years agoPost 48
Unbalanced

rrVeteran

Melbourne, Australia

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Putting cost aside for a moment - the biggest problem I have with electrics is the potential for a fire if I really plant it. I fly mostly from a dairy farm and during the warmer months the grass gets quite long and very dry. Even with nitro the general rule is no flying on fire ban days.

Another far more significant drawback is they just don't sound sexy - screech doesn't sounds as natural as brummm (just ask any kid - or adult male)

The hobby can cost but it can be managed relative to what you can afford if you can control your own spending impulses and the force is with you somewhat when you fly.

If you stay insulated from our modern consumer culture (yeh right) and buy only what you need and are careful it isn't big bucks for nitro helis - and there a lot of 2nd hand deals going around.

Different story with bigger electrics - I'd estimate the basic costs of a 50 electric would be close fitting out and running a high end 90 size nitro heli, without the flexibility of refueling until you get sick of flying on the day or the sheer size. I've been very tempted to convert a raptor to electric but the cell costs and durability (cycles and possible crash damage) put me off.

Jeff

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02-07-2006 05:05 AM  12 years agoPost 49
rroback

rrElite Veteran

Irvine (UCI), Ca

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Compared to sailing ( another one of my hobbies) these hobby is ridiculously cheap. Lucky me, most of my sailing is through my school, so it's cheap for me, but for others... sheesh... boating a joke.

An important note about crashing electrics. I've discussed this a few times with Gary Goodrum ( from tppacks.com) who happens to be a friend of mine. Both of us have flown a lot of electrics, and both of us have crashed, and seen nearly hundreds of crashes, but I've yet to see a fire. I've personally hit heli's with large lipos(both my joker, and logo20) hit hard enough to really smash the lipos, and to put some deep cuts into them, but have not seen any fire what so ever. the chance does exist, but I'd say you're almost as likely to light a field on fire from crashing a nitro and spilling fuel, as you are with an electric. During charging however, is where issues arise, if you are not careful.

I used to try and do basic cost analysis, figure out what model is best, but I've learned to not do that. I don't check out crash costs beforehand. I fly models because I like to fly, and crashing, well, it happens every so often, for numerous reasons. I've heard of guys drop kicking their tx when they crash. I crash, I turn, wave to the guys watching me, and go pick up my carcass, and maybe the only though is, I'm gonna nail the tic toc next time, or something similar. I've got enough money to not have to worry about crashes. Some people do have to worry more, but my advise is just be patient. My rebuilds often take weeks, but my machines always come back happy, and so do I.

Rhett..... I can't fly, but the Profi sure can.

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02-07-2006 06:07 AM  12 years agoPost 50
mhale71

rrNovice

sydney

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i shredded one of my lipo cells in my ionX the other day, it leaked all over the f*cking thing but sure as hell didnt catch fire.

electric versus fuel

pfft.. meh is all i say, im really gettign sick of these threads, theyre jsut getting old and tired, there are valid arguments for both, and in the end, fuel power just is cheaper, you can go home now, i fly electric, becasue i can fly in my driveway, backyard, school down the road, or, at the club, i can fly whenever wherever provided its allowed andi have charged batteries, no starting equipment to lug around, no smoke, and no noise.

mike

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02-07-2006 09:26 AM  12 years agoPost 51
Temjin

rrApprentice

Walnut CA, HsinChu Taiwan

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With Eletric you have to pay larget investment in the front.Fuel you pay as you go and save those extra money in bank for interest



Life is short. Offend as many people as you can. - Tom Leykis

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02-07-2006 02:11 PM  12 years agoPost 52
GyroRon

rrApprentice

Fort Mill South Carolina

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This thread shouldn't have made it past two or three replys....

Bottom line is if your compairing a .30 to .50 size glow heli to a electric of the same size..... the electric is going to cost more to buy it and all the gear needed to fly it, plus the on going cost of replacement batteries will end up costing more than the on going cost of fuel for the glow helicopters.

There is advantages to both types, the electrics having alot of advantages that I personally favor such as no mess, less noise, no tinkering with getting the engine tuned right, less chance of "flame outs" being the main ones. BUT glows have their own advantages as well, and no need to list them as they have been addressed in this thread already.

Now I believe if you compare the typical Raptor .30 or .50 to a electric like the T-rex, the T-rex wins. Especially if you are still learning. Crash the T-rex and your lucky to do more than 20 bucks in damage, and that is messing up alot of stuff on the Rex.... Crash a Raptor and you better be sitting when you add up the cost of all the parts.

Eletrics do have a drawback in that the batteries are dangerous. They can cause a fire if you don't charge them properly and also there is a chance in a crash you could have a fire - although I have hit the ground hard many times with my old Shogun and the Battery I was using in it is still working fine today...

As for this hobby costs too much, Yeah it is expensive... But like others have said, it is not the most expensive hobby to take up. I fly r/c airplanes too and aren't cheap, And if you really want to see a expensive hobby... I also own a two seat Vans RV-4 airplane and a single seat Dominator gyroplane. Between the payment on the plane - I own the gyro free and clear - and the cost of insurance, hangar fees, maintance etc - NOT counting gas and oil!!! - it costs me over 900$ a month to have the pleasure of enjoying flying as hobby.

One thing to keep in mind is you do not have to have the most expensive helicopter, you most likely do not need a bunch of bling bling upgrades, and if you look around there is bargins out there. I see a ad here for a Nexus that is complete with radio and starting gear that could probably be bought for 400-450$ that is pretty cheap to be able to fly a big glow heli... But if you let this forum suck you in you will not want anything other than a RaptorSE or a T-rex SE and your going have to spend the big bucks for either.... See my point?

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02-07-2006 02:29 PM  12 years agoPost 53
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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im really gettign sick of these threads, theyre jsut getting old and tired
Considered just double-clicking on the left mouse button to go the next thread? It's stress free.

What I'm getting tired of?

1. those that have no positive inputs;
2. those that bash others; (not to be confused with taunting)
3. those who let their forum "status" go to their heads;
4. those that have done it and think they know it all;
5. none team players;
6. grumpy people;
7. those that suck the enjoyment out of this forum;
8. keyboard nazis (see #2)
9. those that get tired of reading threads that no one else has read.
10. those that tell you, you're not smart enought to do a search.
11. those that don't have a sense of humor;
12. those that think someone elses "opinion" is a direct insult to their intelligence (or lack of);
13. those that have no respect for others opinion;
14. those who think their opinion is the only worth one;

I guess misery does like company...but not mine...I just like the ignore list...it does wonders for my none stress life...and I plan to keep it that way...thank you, thank you, thank you very much (in Elvis voice)

Anyone else would like to add to this list?

Perhaps this should be a new thread....you'll be surprised of how long this list can get.

Interesting how a "beat up" topic has generated over 1100 views.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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02-07-2006 03:40 PM  12 years agoPost 54
lowandslow

rrKey Veteran

Spring Hill, TN

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GyroRon is totally correct. What's the point? If you have to count pennies, R/C is probably not the best hobby. Just fly what you like. What does it really matter if one cost a little more than the other? There are endless threads on RR and other places on this subject. If you like electric then fly electric, if you like nitro then fly nitro.

*** the level of enjoyment of this hobby is directly proportional to how deep your pocket is ***

Oh please. I have a foam plane that I don't have more than maybe $150 in. I have just as much fun with that as with any other high $$ plane or heli that I fly. Sometimes even more.

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02-07-2006 04:17 PM  12 years agoPost 55
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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^^^

signature lines are not always to be taken seriously.

if it ain't broke, break it.

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02-07-2006 06:06 PM  12 years agoPost 56
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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I'm waiting to get the XeroG600e, BUT only when the battery manufacturers have done a bit more chemistry (as I believe is happening right now) so charge times come down to minutes. Then I'm happy to spend a few hundred quid on batteries as I'll be able to nearly fly back to back. The power tools manufacturers will probably be coming up trumps this year. Can't wait

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02-07-2006 07:15 PM  12 years agoPost 57
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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its about what you like , how much fun it is to learn what you like , and to me , electrics is like going to school again , it takes alot of your time to learn the ins and outs of electrics , and a big set back for me was when lipos hit the market , had to learn all over again, I fly nothing smaller than 50 size electrics , I fly 10s to 14s , and soon I will have a 15s heli , my goal is to see 15s1p lipo pack to run in my Ion.
electrics is it as far as power , and if you set one up right , you will pop heads left and right with there mouth open in AW!
Im a power nut , nitro just dont cut it , no power , gas , naw ! theres not one nitro engine out there that can dish out 5.8 HP and woop my Ion , and I can still get more Power from the same motor

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02-08-2006 01:09 AM  12 years agoPost 58
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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To be discussed after lipos get cheaper...

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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02-08-2006 01:23 AM  12 years agoPost 59
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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huh? 15s1p , I dont see a big price tag , 1p is where its so simple , but we need at least 25C cells to do that , when we do get there , it will be easy to repair your own packs instead of sending them back from where they were bought

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02-08-2006 01:33 AM  12 years agoPost 60
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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cheaper == flying all day with one pack the day is nigh with the evolution of the nano. and, then i'll be there. (not all of us have unlimited resources )

if it ain't broke, break it.

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