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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Learning on a gasser? pro's and cons...........
02-06-2006 07:02 PM  12 years agoPost 21
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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Got myself in a pickle at the moment - bought a gasser secondhand but not yet finished at a good price and was planning to learn with it but the local club guys are strongly against it based on the price of crash damage - what I want to know is that a major concern considering that I already have the gasser and the saving in fuel costs? It is an xcell 1005 heli and the other thing to remember is I have no support equipment for nitro. I have been playing with gas motors in other R/C for about 10 years and just love the convenience of pull and go........and I will be on a budget. I am going to buy the reflex sim even before flying for real and intend to be patient - so what is the verdict - ..............thanks.........Simon.
Yes, I would say you're in a pickle for two reasons. One, you jumped the gun and bought something without knowing all the ramifications (doesn't signify patience) and two, you say you are on a budget. The first one says you couldn't wait and the second one says you can't afford the hobby.

There are pro's and there are con's to starting with gas. It was my choice and I am very happy with my choice but you really should answer this question before you go any further. Can I afford to get into the RC helicopter hobby? Even if your spending starts small it is bound to increase. In a very short time you might not be happy with small. So if you are not thinking about the increase spending in the future it might be best to forget getting involved in RC helis.

What ever choice you make, if you want to proceed with RC helis be it electric, glow or gas, it would be best to tame your impulses and find out all you can before you act. After all, you do want to have fun, right?

Just my thoughts.

Ace

Ace
What could be more fun?

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02-06-2006 10:28 PM  12 years agoPost 22
Simon W.

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Australia

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It would seem to me that it will come down to my own personal preference in the end and I guess that is what happens with most situations like this. Ace - as to jumping in I guess you have a point however I do not regret buying the chopper as I did get a good deal and love the heli even without flying it - great engineering and worst coming to worst I have had 2 offers from locals to buy it if I did not want it. As to on a budget I guess I should rectify that statement - I simply was looking for advice as to the smartest use of my money - no I don't have it to burn but if I need it then I will get it - last year I spent as much money as I did on the purchase of this heli on motor upgrades only for my gas boats. I am guessing I will have about $2000 a year to spend on my hobby as that is about my average over the past few years. Point being I simply wanted the best advice for that money. Thanks again to all............Simon.

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02-07-2006 12:32 AM  12 years agoPost 23
Jim Cimino

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NE Pennsylvania

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I started with an X-Cell 1005 Gasser and it was a great flying machine. The only drawback that I found as I was too afraid to crash it and it held me back. I purchased a Raptor 50 and learned on it. I never did crash the gasser, but my buddy did! I think the high price of repair could hinder your advancement, but as far as a great learing machine...they are hard to beat.
Jim

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02-07-2006 04:50 AM  12 years agoPost 24
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Old School
I go back to the pre - gyro days, crickets, mantis, miniboy, shuttle and bailed do to work for 3 hours to get 10 min of satisfaction and lack of the new radio set ups..
The gassers are a tremendous confidence builder as you grow with your skill, and fuel costs are minimal. Just don't go any higher than you are willing to fall. They don't flit around, rock steady in the breaze, minimal equipment investment. You can spend a lot of time learning behavior. On off days when your nervouse and jerky go home. On good days practice and practice and watch the batieries - you will find you will make giant steps in confidence and ability.

greyeagle

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02-07-2006 02:48 PM  12 years agoPost 25
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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I will have about $2000 a year to spend on my hobby as that is about my average over the past few years.
Simon,
$2000 a year is a budget?

That's a lot more then I expect to spend. I only spent about $2200 total for the standard Predator and don't expect the repair cost will be over 200 a year, that's assuming I don't have a major crash.

Good luck with helis

Ace
What could be more fun?

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02-08-2006 06:00 AM  12 years agoPost 26
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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I love PICKEL'S
I just love sweet gerkins sliced thin on my tuna fish sandwich then I dip it in ketschup! Man don't konock it till you try it! Thrill's chills and a watering for more! The first time you spool up -the gota have gas will bite hard and I gar- ran- tee it, your tail is gona be waggin for more! And you will have happy feet!

You will have tremendous respect for the mechanics, and for the technology involved. This will fuel your desire for more knowledge - hence too study more - grow and learn the science and it's relationship to therory of flight and it' associated mechanics. In itself this will act as a throttle curve and you will only progress at the speed in which your confidence grows. The only conumdrum I had was this spring I got some Whren's commng back who are gona get even do to a personal issue.

I believe in the saturation learning curve, 1st time your only good for a minute then you sweat bullets. 2nd time your good for 4 min.
3rd time maybe 6 min till your knee's get wormy. The time scale will grow with confidence and as you get the mechanics sorted. Pretty soon every day is a good day cause you conclude before your saturation is reached and that only you know. Little steps - always forward.

greyeagle

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02-08-2006 08:58 PM  12 years agoPost 27
avator

rrVeteran

New Jersey

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Simon,
There is alot of good information here. I like the sim idea. Get good on the sim and your learning curve will be much faster with less damage. I also like the idea of an electric. Stay away from wakera...the examples that I have seen were junk to say the least. Small electrics are a little less stable, but most fly well. And as someone said earier, if you can fly an electric the gasser will be cake. I like the Blade CP. It's cheap and flys great. Comes with everything except 8 aa batteries.
Good luck and put in the sim time, you'll be glad you did.

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02-21-2006 10:23 PM  12 years agoPost 28
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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I think I'm the third person on this thread that started with a gasser and now flys a Tiger50.

Even crashing the Tiger isn't so cheap after awhile.

Last Tiger crash was about $80 but the one before was over $100.

The Xcell Gasser cost me over $300 per crash.

I miss the awe of the big gas chopper though. Now that I'm flying I may get a Spectra.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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02-21-2006 10:41 PM  12 years agoPost 29
Simon W.

rrNovice

Australia

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Thanks to everyone - I went to the local club on the weekend and saw an IonX fly and was very impressed and finally decided that I would buy a Trex. I figure if it is to hard to learn on then I will get a raptor but I have wanted a Trex for a while so I thought I would try. I have arranged a large enclosed shed for practising in still conditions. I have purposely not bought blades/exhaust or a gyro for my gasser as then there is no temptation to fly it. I will also be buying a new TX with my spare cash this month(jr pcm 9x V2) so that I know everything will be right when it comes time for the gasser. My Trex should be here at the end of the week - can't wait to have a crack at crashing..........Simon.

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02-25-2006 06:22 PM  12 years agoPost 30
flipped2left

rrKey Veteran

indianapolis,in.

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Too late for this post i guess! buy this! buy that! i went from 3 hawks (cause they were cheap!) to a used gasser and haven't turned back, bigger heli =more stability sure blades are expensive but you don't HAVE to buy carbons, stick with woodies for awhile, the amount of fuel exceeds the capacity of the rx battery so just pocket an xtra. no need for support equipment as a starter ,battery for starter,glo ignitor,charger for glo ignitor,field charger. i was so weighed down hauling all the stuff i needed for my nitro birds that i was too tired to fly once i got to the field. now it's one tx,spare rx batt. and heli.i'm happy!! ken

Smile! people will wonder what you're up to!!

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03-24-2006 04:25 PM  12 years agoPost 31
helisin

rrNovice

Calgary, Canada

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Micro electric
Get a cheap electric. Although I believe the sims are great, I also believe flying the real thing is better. Why not go cheap micro electric? I'm flying the Eflite Blade CP and have intentions of moving to gasser in summer 2007. Cost $269.00 ready to fly. Crashes - $20.00.-ish. Easy on the pocket book. Other comparible models are similarily priced.

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03-24-2006 05:55 PM  12 years agoPost 32
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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I figure if it is to hard to learn on then I will get a raptor but I have wanted a Trex for a while so I thought I would try.
We all make choices and you have made yours. Please understand this: Not crashing with a gasser has a lot to do with understanding the mechanics, understanding the electrics and understanding the programming that ties the two together. Being able to successfully fly a micro electric will not fully prepare you to successfully fly a gasser. You will still have that learning curve to go through.

Enjoy the hobby.

Ace

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-24-2006 06:06 PM  12 years agoPost 33
helisin

rrNovice

Calgary, Canada

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Gas/Electric
Acebird,

I don't have a Gasser but will keep your comment in mind when making the step! Thx. My comments refer only to building the basic skills of heli flying.

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03-24-2006 11:26 PM  12 years agoPost 34
avator

rrVeteran

New Jersey

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Being able to successfully fly a micro electric will not fully prepare you to successfully fly a gasser. You will still have that learning curve to go through.
What a crock of garbage!

helisin,
If you can fly a micro, you'll find flying a gasser easier, although, more intimidating. Similar to planks, the bigger they are, the better they fly. You'll find a large gasser more stabile than your micro, rock solid compared to a Blade CP. I fly both and speak from experience. Blade CP and Predator gasser. Your thinking is sound on this subject.

People like ace, who can't fly should not give advice in an area they know nothing about. As far as we know, ace is still skidding around asphalt parking lots with training gear, check out his gallery you'll see what I mean. He has stated on several other posts that he is a newbie and can't do much more than hover, if that. Look at the bottom of his skids; that wear is from banging and sliding around on asphalt. Yet, he wants to tell you how to do it. Amazing.

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03-25-2006 09:45 AM  12 years agoPost 35
FlyinTiger

rrNovice

Suffolk, VA

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Things to watch for on a GASSER heli
Hey guys...I went the route that so many others have found successful. I started with the simulator (AeroFly Pro for me) and flew that for a whole Winter before I even tried a "real" heli. I started on a T-Rex and love it!

The T-Rex is twitchy and not very stable, but it is teaching me the basics of orientation and allowing me to practice what I've learned on the sim (FFF, loops, flips, hovering in all orientations), but it is SMALL!

My wife has been flying heli's seriously for two years now, and has moved up to a Bergen Intrepid Gasser. Large helis are very stable. SET UP is the most critical part of flying a gasser if you already know how to fly helicopters. Get help setting up your helicopter! NOTHING replaces experience, not even the instructions that came with the heli, all the different forums, nothing. Get someone with proven experience with GASSER helis to help you set up and tune your heli!

Setting up and flying the BERGEN gasser has taught my wife and I several lessons:

1. Double check the linkages. Be extra vigilant to get the geometry correct on your linkages. If you don't know what exactly to do, the BEST solution is to have a local knowledgeable heli pilot help you with the linkage/radio set up.

2. Make sure you have the manufacturer's recommended fuel, oil and mixture ratio in your gas tank for your engine/heli combo.

3. With larger gassers, the head speed should be at FLYING RPM before a load is applied to the blades...at just past 1/4 stick you should have the rotor RPM you intend to fly with. Gary Travis taught us this.

4. If you are seeing excessive oscillations on spool up the engine is most likely too lean (especially during engine break-in). Heli's are much more sensitive to the vibration of a gas engine, the head will start some very uncomfortable oscillations and you'll instinctively pull back on the throttle. Richen the LOW end needle one-screwdriver-width at a time until it spools up smoothly.

5. Momentum...there is a considerable amount of momentum in any large model aircraft. The simulator nor the T-Rex will prepare you for the momentum the gasser will have. When my wife went from the Raptor 50 to the Bergen Gasser that was the first thing she noticed, and warned me of that.

6. Check all your bolts and screws for tightness after every flight. Make initial flights short so you can find those screws that are sneaking out and get loctite on them before a problem develops.

I am most likely going to fly the Bergen Gasser as my next heli. The T-Rex is fun (like a foamy) and I'll continue to fly that, but with a healthy amount of respect and lots of practice, I think the large gasser heli will treat me right!

PROS:
1. Larger - easier to see orientation.
2. Heavier - wind will affect it less
3. Relatively NO field equipment
4. Cheap fuel - practice hovering for hours for under $4 (incl. oil)
5. CLEAN - no oily residue on your nice heli
6. Different - lots of nitro birds out there, only relatively few guys flying gassers.

CONS:
1. Cost - initial set-up and crash repair
2. Complicated - gassers invite more complicated vibration issues and set-up becomes monumentally more critical
3. Intimidating - although easier to fly, the *pucker factor* is much higher

HAVE FUN! If while flying a gasser you're too worried to have fun, shelf it for a season while you burn holes in the sky with your T-Rex! You'll be looping, rolling, hovering nose in, and flying fast with a sim and a T-Rex after only a few months of practicing!

FlyinTiger

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03-25-2006 02:41 PM  12 years agoPost 36
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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ace is still skidding around asphalt parking lots with training gear, check out his gallery you'll see what I mean. He has stated on several other posts that he is a newbie and can't do much more than hover, if that. Look at the bottom of his skids; that wear is from banging and sliding around on asphalt.
Some newbies like to hear from newbies because their perspective is closer to their own. For instance, there are very few posts warning a newbie about how the skids get sanded down on pavement. It was good of you to call it to their attention. But the way you did it makes me think they will not want to hear from you in the future because the first mistake they make they know you will ridicule them. I have a thick skin so by all means blast away.

All you newbies please do visit my gallery and see all the mistakes I have made so you won't have to make them yourself. There are alot of people on this forum that feel the same way I do. Ignore the ones that ridicule, they usually don't have much to offer and most people all ready know their intentions and ignore them too.

PS. I am not using a word processor for this post ... there may be some misspelled words. If you can't get the jist of my message ask me to clearify my statements.

BTW the previous post from FlyinTiger is great advise. He understands the difference between a small electric and a gasoline powered heli even though he may not be flying one yet.

Ace

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-25-2006 03:29 PM  12 years agoPost 37
Gary Travis

rrVeteran

Utah

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Gassers
Let me jump in here and offer my two cents worth. Starting with a gasser can be done and has been done by many. Yes it's more intimidating and yes it can be more costly if you crash. They are much more stable when set up correctly as stated the bigger the more stable. I have taught several people to fly with there first helicopter being a large gasser, I suggest if you want to go that route get some help from someone who not only has a good background with r/c helicopters and most of all gasoline powered helicopters.
The set up on a gasser differs from the glow and electric heli's, I have dealt with two types of flyers getting into gas (1) the flyer who realizes his limitations when dealing with the gasser and seeks out the experienced gasser pilot to help and (2) the guy who knows it all, guess who ends up with the problems! These forums are a wealth of info and are frequented by many of the pilots with gasser experience, get in contact with them and follow there recomendations and don't try to advance to fast. That way of thinking should jhelp with your success. Although I don't consider myself to be the all knowing when dealing with gassers I have picked up alot of experience along the way as Ihave been flying gassers since way before they became popular. As i said get the right help and take it one step at a time and have fun at it.
Gary Travis

Bergen R/C Helicopters Duralite Batteries DJI Innovations Magnum Fuels Wren Turbinesl

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03-25-2006 06:34 PM  12 years agoPost 38
avator

rrVeteran

New Jersey

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Wrong again aceboob,

I was ridiculing you, only you and no one else. The reason is because you give advise that is often not correct and misleading to newbies. As usual, you think your perspective is the only one that counts. Your perceptions are very often wrong, yet, you talk as if it is gospel. You are the problem here ace, you just can't see it because your arrogance is always in the way.

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