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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › New 90 size gas engine from webra
09-06-2006 06:03 PM  14 years ago
Fixit

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Well I’m disappointed in the webra gasser to say the least, I bought two of them and if you have followed this thread you will know I've been having problems getting one of them to run properly and then the ignition censor stopped working which explained why it was backfiring and intermittently 4 stroking all the time no mater what needle ajustments we made, so unfortunately it has to go back to webra.

After installing the second engine we have had the same problems getting it to run, at first starting wasn’t a problem but getting the head speed to go past 14500 was, the next time we tried it, it was very hard to start and wouldn’t idle, then not long after that the ignition censor stopped working on this one as well,
It’s a shame because they fit with no problems and start well for the first time and sound quiet for a gasser.
I’ve also seen another post saying his censor has stopped working so it looks like its going to be a problem with these motors.
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09-07-2006 02:54 AM  14 years ago
asong26

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I am very sorry to hear that man. 2 engines all SOL? What are you doing about it? Are you going to send them back? Also, if they don't refund (it's obvioulsy design / quality issue), is there anything we can do?

Perhaps you should start a brand new thread that specifically deals with their lack of support. That's the power of these forums.
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09-07-2006 04:46 AM  14 years ago
Fixit

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asong26

Well yes you could help with a bit of advice, Webra have asked me to return one and I’m waiting for a reply about the second one, if they were to refund me how would that work because I didn’t buy then direct from Webra I bought them from two separate internet suppliers.
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09-07-2006 05:20 AM  14 years ago
asong26

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I am very new to this heli scene, but IMHO, any manufacturs (OEM) should directly control at least a certain level of SLA (Service Level Agreement) with their resellers. You should also contact the people that you bought the engine from. I most certain that they will have a return order policy and process established. If not, then you should deal directly with Webra.

Based on the experience from others in the forum, this quaity issue seems consistent. They should recognize this. Unless these quality / service related woes are resolved, it will have directly impact on their revenue. People will see and learn from this thread. This is why customer servie and attention is very important, especially in a marketplace as small as this. One stain their reputation for a very very long time.

Please keep us posted, and don't give up. This hobbie is way too expensive to have these "Bait and Switch" type marketing, and it's also apparant that they've rushed the release of their product.
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09-07-2006 06:53 AM  14 years ago
hiroboss

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Malaysia

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I'm dissapointed on how this thread progress as I've also bought this engine and have yet to fire it up! So, I don't want to cry over the design of this engine but rather looking on another solution (we can't be sure that Webra is going to return our money) on how to make it work properly.

It seems to me that Webra has a solid ground but experincing a bad egg in it. So, base on your experience (and frustration) can you suggest another workaround to solve the ignition problem? Maybe reading the signal from the magnet in the fan?? Cause I'm not giving up...
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09-07-2006 08:21 AM  14 years ago
Fixit

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hiroboss
I asked webra if they would send me a new censor but they insist I return the engine.I would gladly try anything rather than send the second one back because after all I bought it to use it, If I knew the make of the censor I would buy one myself but if I remove the faulty one to mach it up I would viod the warrenty. Unfortunately the first engine will have to go back because the piston has started to break-up probably with the spark being all over the place.
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09-07-2006 02:14 PM  14 years ago
fritzthecat

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Virginia Beach, VA

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On the Webra site under the 91Pi engine they show extra/spare parts.
http://www.webra-austria.at/index1.php?lang=EN
One of them is the Universal Sensor and Bracket:

Order No.
Ignition box with ignition lead and plug cap 24111
Integral sensor for Webra 91-P5 24191
Universal sensor bracket 20441/6A
Magnet, 4 x 4 20441/6B
Propeller driver + taper collet set 20441/6C
Universal sensor 20441/6D
Sparkplug, M10 thread 4312

Thay also sell a generic ignition set. The set for the 91Pi comes with the backplate sensor, this one includes the universal sensor.

Order No.
Spark II universal set
1 x ignition box with ignition lead and plug cap 24110
1 x universal sensor with bracket and magnet
1 x propeller driver + taper collet set


So the sensor for the fan exists. It looks very similar the the GV sensors. Even the bracket and magnet is similar. I think it would be a real good idea for Webra to just abandon the integral sensor idea and give all 91Pi owners the universal sensor and instructions on how to time/set it up.
Come to think of it, if you use an optical sensor, you could use it on screw-on fans and it would make the timing very easy.
May be an option for you Fixit while you wait for engine #1 to come back from the factory.

Fritz

'Send Money, Women and Guns!'
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09-07-2006 04:00 PM  14 years ago
asong26

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Their attitude is ridiculous. I am certain they know by now that their sensors are causing problems, or it could just as well be the engine itself.

Yet, they're using people to pay half of the shipping costs? They shouldn't be allowed to go through a Q/A procss at the expense of their customers. This is not a beta product, but commecially available. We should never have to pay for shipping either way. Also, they should be the ones invest in a situation like this to improve their product.

Who's gonna pay for the downtime and efforts wasted in trying to get this thing to work?
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09-07-2006 05:02 PM  14 years ago
Luis104

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Caracas / Venezuela

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Seems like the "BME-Super Tigre 90" has won the Battle...!!!

webra should stop trying to design cold wather, and sell the engine with a fan sensor. I still believe this it´s a good engine, but only if the sensor it´s changed to the fan. And I really like the idea as Fixit said: "they fit with no problems" No modifications to fit it in the heli. In the other hand, the BME engine has this problem; you need special engine mounts to fit the engine (not a big problem, but if it´s easier, it´s best)
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09-07-2006 05:25 PM  14 years ago
smoky

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AUSTRIA

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Hi,

I´ve also bought a 91Hi, with this integrated sensor
and it works. I fly a vision sx from helisystem, I have
mount a headertank on it and now it flyes inverted too.

If I found somebody to make an video from my vision,
I will show it.

Smoky
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09-07-2006 05:27 PM  14 years ago
asong26

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VA

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As fate would have it, I ended up getting a Predaotr w/ Zenoah 231 off eBay.

I can't wait to fly it.


For those of you that are having customer service issues, I would continue to insist that they send the new universal sensor vs. you shipping the enitre engine out to them at your own cost. I wish you all best of luck!

Cio
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09-07-2006 05:39 PM  14 years ago
Fixit

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asong26

I will ask webra again and see it they will give in and send me a universal censor for the second engine and hope they will see sense.
Although I mailed them two days ago about the second engine failing and they haven’t replied so far.
Cheers
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09-07-2006 05:40 PM  14 years ago
tjmitchem

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Andover, MN - USA

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smoky,

Did you have any difficulty getting it tuned? How are the temps?

It would be great if you could tell us your experiences with this engine.

Terry
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09-07-2006 06:02 PM  14 years ago
Flying Tivo

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Monterrey,NL,Mexico

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Finally i got my sensor from webra
It had to cost me 130USD for shipping and taxes.
But if it breaks down again i will definetlly be asking for
my money back.

Felipe
If life throws at you lemons......Squirt some lemon juice in the eye of your enemy!!!!
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09-07-2006 06:48 PM  14 years ago
asong26

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$130 for shipping and handling? It makes sense since they are in Europe. That's crazy.

I am so surprised that Webra w/ their reputation would treat their customers this way. Especially during the initial release. Upstart customer service is key in building product / brand recognition. Instead, they're doing completely opposite.

I am sure Webra is doing all they can trying to cut down cost, but the initial RA process should be considered as basic CDB (Cost of Doing Business).

I wonder if there is an equivalent to BBB (Better Business Bureau) in Austria... Might be worth looking into.
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09-07-2006 07:07 PM  14 years ago
smoky

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Hi Terry,

first of all, I let the needels as they are,
starting the engine with apr. 20% throttle open, don´t know why
but if the engine is cold you need to open the throttle that way.
My throttle curve was for the first setup straight from
0% up to 100% and pitch from-8° to +8°.
Then I tried to do some hovering and adjusting.
Now my throttlecurve is normal from "100 - 73 - 55 - 73 - 100",
the low needle is open 3 1/2 turns and the main needle 1 turn.

I found out, if the engine is to rich @ overing and works
good at low throttel I put in the main needle for about
one or two clicks.

I fly the vision @ 1700rpm (1700x8.4=14280rpm engine)
and 8°-9° pitch.
My temperature is about 130-140°C, not mine from the engine.

I will try to put this motor in my Nova (ROBBE), because I´ve
two of them and I will do some comparison.

more infos later
smoky
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09-07-2006 07:47 PM  14 years ago
tjmitchem

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Andover, MN - USA

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Smoky,

How is the power, and what sort of maneuvers have you performed with it?

If you've been reading this whole thread, then you've probably noticed that some people are having fairly serious issues with this engine.

I'm very interested the engine, but I'd definitely want to see one flying well before shelling out the cash

Terry
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09-08-2006 02:15 PM  14 years ago
babyhermann

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Villach Carinthia Austria

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Support Level
Hi to all

first of all i have to answer some questions: The weight of the NT im am using is 5,3kg due to all the mounted stuff. Normally a NT is always at 4,7kg this is normal an well known to all NT Pilots. The other thing is the regulator. The engine is defined for SPORT flying, this was originally not designed for the 3 D usage! Webra tried to use the Regulator because they thougt that it may be neccessary for Sport flying. But in opposite all of the customers try to do some 3 D and for that the engine is not designed. According to this webra is working on the engine furthermore to find out whether it`s possible to do harder flying style to or not. So this is the reason why the regulator is also a theme. You can imaging that we can not have all on the market available helicopters on stock only for testing. But the critical thing is the tank system, and this is not the same in the machines. Next thing is every one is comparing the engine with high nitro solutions gererally. This is also not correct. Trie to take all these guys the nitro away and you will see engines suffering and the will not perform well, i would like to say they will be killed by heat!. Concerning the support level: @ Flying TIVO :It is not WEBRA who is charging you the money and tax for the transport! Try to understand this, and maybe you should think about using a other parcle service. It is always possible to send the product to Webra directly if service is needed. Normally this should be done by the reseller.
@ Fixit: You posted a lot of negative things concerning THIS engine.
I am surprised that you have bought TWO of them! You describe yourself as an unexperienced user, wether using petrol engines or nitro engines. So i think that sending back the engine is a offer to help you, because the only thing Webra would like to do, is to put YOUR COMPLETE ENGINE ON THE TESTBENCH and see what is going on. It may be that some technical problems will cause, but what if not! What would you ( if yor instead of Webra) do if the customer has a handling problem only? You have no possiblility to reply ----- so the customer is shouting about the supplier but this will also not bring a result! I strongly recomend to send the engine back so Webra can see what the problem is. Just one remark: Try to do this with OS........
Furthermore i have installed a header tank system an now invertet flights are possible. Next week I am on a business trip, an when i am back i will send you a video link to show. A friend of mine and me are discussing about a small training video to see the effects when overriching or outleaning the engine. Gererally i have to say that it is a big difference for the most users to change to a petrol engine. There is not that much experience. i also had problems in the beginning. So the user need to learn about the handling for example you have no smoke to indicate the correct needle settings. I saw smoky flying some F3C tasks an he can compete to other F3C machines well.
So i am still working on other tests as i described in my last post.
Greetings from Austria!
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09-08-2006 03:02 PM  14 years ago
Fixit

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UK

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Babyhermann

You only pick out certain things to make comment on about me, you say I’m inexperienced well yes I’ve only been in this hobby a year but I spend up to eight hours a day on them, I know people that have been in this hobby for twenty years so that’s why I call myself inexperienced but having said that I have built five Helis from kit and never had a problem getting the engines to run before including the problematic OS90-C Spec. Yes the gassers are different to set up but even I should be able to tune one to run properly otherwise it should be stated when sold, For Advanced Engine Tuners Only.
The next point is you have now changed your mind about the heat and said heat will kill this engine, well it’s a bit too late for me because the first engine I bought as been destroy by the Heat and a faulty ignition system which by the way you don’t seem to make comment on (Only certain things about me) I did say mine was bogging down when it reached 250F and showed concern about this but you first statement about the heat reassured me to carry on.
I do know Webra have offered help and I will send both engines back but at this moment in time I don’t have the funds to pay for the postage.
And lastly you say funny why I bought two engines, Well it’s not rocket science, I have two heils that I wanted to convert and that = two engines.

And by the way, I sent you a PM last week and asked for some tuning tips for this engine but you didn’t send a reply.
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09-08-2006 04:03 PM  14 years ago
asong26

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VA

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In my opinion, no should ever have to pay for the return on shipping and handling when the problem is caused by a faulty component.

It's just wrong. Why not just send him the replacement part that is known to solve the problem? Who has the money to spend $120+ on a single return shipment?
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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › New 90 size gas engine from webra
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