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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Performing a Chaos
01-16-2006 03:34 AM  13 years ago
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mccomb40

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Florence, AL

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Performing a Chaos
Okay, I can do just about every trick in the book but I can't even come close to performing a chaos or anything that even looks like it. Can somebody help me!??
Whenever I see somebody doing a Chaos I just stand in awe and hope someday I will learn it.
Especially to the right music.
Thanks for any suggestions or advice.
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01-16-2006 03:46 AM  13 years ago
Kokamo

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Liberty Hill Tx

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Well, I asked this same question. I got a few replies but I still am having difficulties
Go here~~~~> http://www.runryder.com/t211586p1/?highlight=kokamo
See if this helps any at all.


Joe
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01-16-2006 05:25 AM  13 years ago
sp1nm0nkey

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Redwood City, CA

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You might want to do a search. There are plenty of good posts out there about it. The trick is you want to stir the right stick while you keep it pirouetting with the left and keep the collective going so it stays in place. Learn stationary flips first, that'll teach you the collective timing. Then get it going into a slow pirouette (this is difficult to do, some people set the tail rotor ATVs at around 50% so you can pin the rudder and get a nice slow pirouette). You'll want to keep it pirouetting counterclockwise, that way you unload the tail rotor rather than loading it. Once you're in a slow pirouette, stir the cyclic clockwise at the exact rate that the heli is pirouetting. Keep it synchronized by watching the tail. Keep a good view on the whole thing by keeping it flipping towards or away from you, not sideways. When the tail rotor is pointed straight up or straight down, you'll want the right stick pointed up or pointed down. Just keep it smooth and consistant, and most of all keep the timing perfect. Practice and eventually you'll get it.

By the way, if you can't figure out why the whole trick works after reading this, read it again. It won't work half as well if you don't know what's going on.
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01-16-2006 06:06 AM  13 years ago
mccomb40

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Florence, AL

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Wow. That sounds worse than taking a final exam. Oh well, it'll be fun and well worth the effort.
Thanks for info.
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01-16-2006 02:22 PM  13 years ago
Chris Lupa

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Lancaster, UK

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IMO, explaining it is harder than the actual manouver. Once you get the timing and rhythm going, it's actually a very easy manouver to do.......but if you don't get either of those 2 things right then things get ugly - fast. Just keep practising the suggested ideas on the sim. Once you get it perfect on the sim, go out a do it for real 200ft up. Once you get it done, you'll realise it feels natural and easy to do....then, try it at 4ft Sponsored by CSM and QuickUK
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01-16-2006 02:31 PM  13 years ago
cwright

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Blossvale New York

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Alan Szabo's DVD Ultimate Heli 3D shows the stick movements as well as the heli in flight. He also explains the manuever while he is flying it. Has other manuevers on it as well. Chuck
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01-16-2006 04:10 PM  13 years ago
helichulo

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Queens, New York

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Is anybody have this ultimate video used for sale?
I'm interested.
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01-16-2006 04:14 PM  13 years ago
Chris Lupa

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Lancaster, UK

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It is a good DVD to have. Search it on google....it comes up with places to buy it.Sponsored by CSM and QuickUK
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01-16-2006 04:48 PM  13 years ago
JitsuGuy

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Tulsa, Oklahoma

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Sounds to me like that is an explaination for a piro-flip and not a chaos. Two, completely different maneuvers. And I don't believe a chaos is just a fast piro-flip. Maybe I'm confused.


J
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01-16-2006 04:52 PM  13 years ago
mccomb40

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Florence, AL

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whats the difference?
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01-16-2006 05:01 PM  13 years ago
JitsuGuy

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Tulsa, Oklahoma

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For a Chaos, for every half stir on clyclics, you change from positive to negative collective (on the left stick) which makes the tail look like it's drawing figure eights in the air. For a piro-flip, for every flip from upright to inverted and vice-versa, you have to stir the stick in a complete circle, not a half.

So, for a piro flip, one complete stir will put you inverted and one complete stir will put you back to upright. For a chaos, it only takes half a stir before you change from negative to positive on the left stick and you're really never, ever completely upright or inverted. I've really only seen a few people do a choas, Scott Glassgow being one of them.

Alan Jr, does awesome piro flips, and he does them fast and the heli stays very stationary. But they're just fast piro-flips, not a chaos.

J
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01-16-2006 05:02 PM  13 years ago
Chris Lupa

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Lancaster, UK

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Yes yes yes yes yes yes there are two kinds of chaos. One is the continual fast piro-flips in a sationary position - like every1 in the universe does. And the other one is when the heli somehow magically changes orientation in between each piroflip or something like that - although it is possible. The very few time I've seen people do the later version in real life or video, it looks, to be honest.....crap (probably because its harder to perfect to be fair and I've never seen anyone do it perfectly). The fast piro-flipping version is the one excepted by the 3DM and pretty much every 3D pilot in the world. To me, this is the real chaos - it looks much more impressive (more chaotic). But either version is still a great manouver - just I think the fast prioflipping chaos is THE Chaos - and is considered so by 3DM etc Sponsored by CSM and QuickUK
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01-16-2006 06:22 PM  13 years ago
sp1nm0nkey

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Redwood City, CA

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The real chaos is when you piroflip, but rotate the axis of the flips. The other ones mensioned are just different ways of timing out piroflips. Chaos requires that you advance the timing in small blips to get it to rotate controlably along the axises. Extremely difficult.

Also, just piroflipping around the sky is fairly easy, but an actual controled piroflip is very difficult. If you think you have piroflips down, try a piroflipping triangle or piroflipping circle.
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01-16-2006 07:39 PM  13 years ago
mccomb40

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Florence, AL

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Thanks for all your replies. I just performed my very first "Piro-flip" on my G3 simulator. What a great feeling it was. Obviously it wasn't perfect but now I have so much to look forward to. Also, I just ordered Alan Szabo's 3D video. It was $22.00 from this site:
http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/Video.htm#heli
Can't wait to get it.
Thanks again.

By the way, after reading the posts, it sounds like a chaos is pretty much impossible and a piro-flip is extremely difficult. I think I'll stick with the piro-flips.
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01-16-2006 07:52 PM  13 years ago
Chris Lupa

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Lancaster, UK

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Great stuff. BTW, when you speak to any guy down at any club across the world....even the biggest of the best, they all consider the Chaos to be multiple piroflips sustained in one position Sponsored by CSM and QuickUK
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01-16-2006 08:01 PM  13 years ago
sp1nm0nkey

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Redwood City, CA

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Do a search, it's split about 65% who think chaos is piroflips rotating around an axis, and 35% who think it's just stationary piroflips. My numbers may be a bit off, but I'm not the only one who thinks so. I'm fairly sure that CY defines chaos as piroflips rotating, but I could be wrong.
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01-16-2006 08:20 PM  13 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Alan Jr
Maybe Alan Jr would like to add a few words of wisdom for us here?
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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01-16-2006 08:34 PM  13 years ago
Chris Lupa

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Lancaster, UK

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Oh no, I completely agree with you . Originaly the Chaos was like you said, piroflips with changing orientation. But now, the newer method of stationary prioflips has certainly taken over. At every comp, a sustained chaos is considered as stationary sustained piroflips. And most (well, almost all) people I speak to also consider it this way. Lol, at the end of the day.....they're both chaos' - no ones wrong or rightSponsored by CSM and QuickUK
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