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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-Elec-Helicopters New or Limited ActivityZoom › Shogun - Low flight times on TP 2000 mAh 3S Pro Lites?
01-15-2006 05:28 PM  13 years ago
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PacketStorm

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Atlanta, GA - USA

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Shogun - Low flight times on TP 2000 mAh 3S Pro Lites?
Hey folks...quick question.

I see a lot of people say that with light flying or straight hovering on their Shoguns they are getting 15+ minutes (almost 20) on a 1320 mAh pack. I'm running a 10C 2000 mAh pack and I'm only getting 11 mins just before the ESC low voltage cut kicks in (which is set for 9.0V). I'm flying in governor mode. The pack recovers to around 9.5 volts or so by the time I get it out of the heli and to the charger. A CC-CV recharge puts in exactly 1830 mA every time - very consistent. My headspeed is around 2000 RPM (I'm having a ROUGH time getting it higher than that because of tail shaft bending problems which I'm working through with Global - see my other post). The motor is pretty warm after a hover - the outrunner portion is comfortably warm and the black stator portion is hot but I can hold my finger on it without pulling away. The battery temp is around 115F after a full "dump."

I'm running:
3 x Hitec HS-56HB's
1 x Hitec HS-50
GY-401
Hitec Electron 6
CC PHX 25 ESC (Governor Mode - Firmware v1.22 beta)
JGF 400DH 8T Pinion
Stock Tail Blades
Global OEM Carbon Blades

EVERYTHING moves smooth as silk. There is no binding at the servo linkages, the gyro end points (limits) are set properly), the belt is not too tight, the gear mesh is good, the main blades spin forever after landing, turning the main gear by hand is easy - overlooking the cogging from the brushless motor. What am I missing?

Is it the fact that I'm not running the motor in it's sweet spot (semi-low RPM)? I know I should be running a higher headspeed (to hit the speet spot) but there is NO WAY I can get it any higher until I get my tail problems resolved - which, by the way, is really P*SSING ME OFF. Still waiting on replacement parts from the factory or advice - so far they are, and this is a quote, "a bit baffled about the shaft issue as we have had few if any other similar complaints."


Any ideas from you "brushless motor efficiency curve"/ESC/battery combo experts would be GREATLY appreciated!
You fly...you crash...it's life
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01-15-2006 06:12 PM  13 years ago
Hoverdown3K

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Rochester, New York

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Your flight time is closer to what most people get, I use a 2200 and get about 10 to 12 at best, if I use a 1320mah lipo I get about 7 to 8 minutes.

You can always try some align wooden blades these are better then stock blades for the shogun and will increase flight time also.
-= I know there is Money in RC helicopters. I put it there=-
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01-15-2006 11:22 PM  13 years ago
Rob_T

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It does sound like you might be running too low on the throttle curve ( I remember your other posts, so I understand the reason for this).

I get about 18 minutes with TP2100s, my motor is a Hacker B20/18L - so it's not as much "horsepower" as your JGF.

I dont think you can get a smaller pinion for your JGF, if you can that would be the first thing to try! You could also try lowering the timing on your ESC. Retarding the timing will help drop the motor revs without needing to lower the throttle curve, and will make it a little more efficient. (But check it runs smoothly- outrunners do need more advanced timing, so if it seems to not start and run smoothly you will need to go back to an advanced setting).

Also fixed throttle and curves are a little more efficient than govenor, which will help.
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01-16-2006 10:13 PM  13 years ago
PacketStorm

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Atlanta, GA - USA

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Rob_T & Hoverdown3K

Thanks for the replies - even if a little opposite of each other!


Rob_T:
I'll try playing with the ESC timing. That's a good idea. What headspeed are you running on your setup with your Hacker B20/18L (how many max amps is that little guy?).
You fly...you crash...it's life
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01-17-2006 04:01 AM  13 years ago
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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I agree with Rob_T. I ran a 400DH on a Shogun with a TP 2100 and a 8T pinion. You gotta let that powerhouse spin freely and get the head speed up with less pitch to do the same job. Lug it down with pitch and too low a throttle curve will pull more current and the DH will pull Lots of current if it has to to get the job done. For it's size the dh has lots of torque ,,don't use it,,use the Horsepower at high revs. Use more throttle and less pitch. cyclic will be better and climb outs will be spectacular.
I now run my 400DH on a TREX 450 LX. Can you say heavy?? It does a great job and I get 10 to 12 with the TREX. I run the same 8T pinion with BIG 335mm blades. You should be able to eek out 13 to 14 with the dh on the Shogun with Trex blades[woodies]. They are cheap and very good. Get rid of the crap foam stock blades ,get the head speed up to get the 400dh in it's efficient powerband and take smaller bites out of the air[less pitch] at a much faster rate and you should see an improvement in performance and duration..
Your setup was identical to my Shogun setup except the blades.
Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them
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01-17-2006 06:30 AM  13 years ago
Rob_T

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My head speed is about 2300. With good batteries I have run it with the head speed governed at 2400, but I dropped it to 2300 to keep things cooler when I started running the Evoflight woodies.

I haven't measured the max current draw, I have a meter so I could. I do know that carrying the meter my V1 used just under 7A to hover with that motor. Incidentally, my reason for chooosing that motor was it has the right KV and shaft to work with the standard pinion (I bought it before places like Sparrow started selling alternative pinions for the Shogun.)
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01-17-2006 07:06 PM  13 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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Your flight time does seem a bit short..I was using a 1900 zagi pack light 3d, circuits loops etc & would fly 3x5min flights (allowing the motor to cool as I had no heatsink)This left me with 2 mins+ reserve on the battery

I suggest you test cycle them to see what capacity you are getting & also note what your putting into the battery when charging

A lot depends on things like air temp, headspeed, flying style but a capacity check under load would show any weakness in your pack
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01-18-2006 01:41 PM  13 years ago
Hoverdown3K

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Rochester, New York

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I am running a JGF 400DH in the Shogun and my reported flight times are what I get, On my second shogun I use an EF BL 3600K motor and get about 3 minutes more per flight.-= I know there is Money in RC helicopters. I put it there=-
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01-22-2006 12:10 AM  13 years ago
PacketStorm

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Atlanta, GA - USA

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Hoverdown3K,

What size pack you running and head speed?
You fly...you crash...it's life
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01-22-2006 12:14 AM  13 years ago
PacketStorm

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Atlanta, GA - USA

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Barney:
I've test cycled them on my Intellipeak ICE and they always put out 1800 mA and take back in 1850 mA or so. (Exactly what I see when I put it in the heli and fly). The voltage graph the ICE generates shows it very flat in the middle of the pack's discharge curve right until the bitter end where it quickly drops off into the 9.0 volt range - cutoff. The packs are top notch and I'm actually charging them gently at 0.8C and I don't recharge them after a flight until they are completely cooled down to room temp.

I'm willing to hedge a significant bet that the packs are in tip top shape!

I really think it's because I'm just short of the JGF 400DH's sweet spot as others have mentioned. I may have my tail vibration problems sorted out and can now experiment with higher headspeeds and see if that improves flight times.
You fly...you crash...it's life
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