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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-Elec-Helicopters New or Limited ActivityIkarus › Recommendations for ECO-16 motor, batteries, pinion, pitch?
01-14-2006 03:37 PM  13 years ago
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buckwheatsf

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minneapolis, mn USA

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Recommendations for ECO-16 motor, batteries, pinion, pitch?
Greetings! I am new to your board, and I will try very hard not to insult or offend anyone with my ignorance. I'm a rookie.

I just bought a used ECO-16 and I have a lot of questions. I have flown (and landed) a mini electric copter that was RTF, but this is my first "big" bird. It has several aluminum hop-ups and a big bag of spare parts, which I hope will get me through at least the first couple of crashes. I'm practicing on a RealFlight simulator - it's a couple of years old, but I built an electric copter model that's a close proximity to the Eco 16 (i.e., HEAVY).

I don't understand half the jargon I'm reading here, but don't let that stop you from answering - I'll work it out.

I want to optimize this copter for flight time and load-carrying capacity -- I don't want to fly this bird 3D or fly fast. I want to mount a video camera on it, and slow steady flight would be best, but I also want to stay in the air longer than a couple of minutes.

The batteries that came with it are old and dead. The motor is a Phasor 30-3 and the controller is the Jeti 40-3P. The pinion has 24 teeth.

If money were no object, what would I use for maximum flight time and weight-lifting ability? What motor, controller, and battery config?

Money is always an object, of course, but I need to understand what the ultimate setup would be.

And what pinion and pitch? That's the part where I'm the most ignorant. I'm guessing that 24p is too large a pinion, but where should I start? And what's a good pitch to try at first? I don't even know how to check the pitch on this copter and see where I'm at now, but of course I will have to figure that out before I fly it.

Thanks!
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01-14-2006 04:15 PM  13 years ago
litespeed600

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St. Charles, Missouri

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I've been around just long enough to tell you prolly the wrong thing so I'm going to point you to the helicopter BIBLE. Yes it will answer 99.9% of all your questions as long as you comrehend the content. I have a fully blinged Eco 8 that I bought used and the EHBG has saved me many a somewhat questionable "stupid" questions although I truly believe that "NO" question is stupid, just some are asked too many times on a site with a search feature!

http://www.swashplate.co.uk/

That being said, "Welcome and enjoy your new toy!"

Tom
Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!
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01-14-2006 04:41 PM  13 years ago
pulsar110

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USA

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buckwheatsf

i would suggest you talk to Chachin. he is around this board somewhere. i know he has played with the 16 quite a bit. i have one but am still getting it set up. can say this though. if you want to lift things with it you will have get a bigger motor and ESC setup. also i am flying my 8 and 18 with a Thunder Power 4s2p battery pack. the 8 is for 3d flying and the 16 is a scale project. you might check into the ikarus h-16 outrunner or something like that. i am using a mega 22/20/3h in my 16 right now but it will be changed to an Eflite 30 or 46 outrunner in the near future.
Fly it like its a rental...
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01-14-2006 04:47 PM  13 years ago
buckwheatsf

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minneapolis, mn USA

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litespeed, thank you SO MUCH for that link. I just started reading it - WOW!

I am thinking that I want to switch to Lipo batteries, which means I need a new controller. Any reason to upgrade the motor too, say to the Phasor 45/3? Should I practice and see if the 30/3 can lift the weight before buying a bigger motor?

But, I have some NiMH battery packs that I might play with befgore I get a new controller. Obviously I need to calculate weight to simulate the difference in batteries. In my simulator model, the bird is HEAVY and has a hard time getting off the ground.

This is going to be a lot of fun!
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01-14-2006 08:41 PM  13 years ago
buckwheatsf

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pulsar, thank you, that is the kind of advice I am looking for!

I think I need to read that 'bible' before posting again though.

Thanks!
Steve
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01-14-2006 11:07 PM  13 years ago
atb

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England

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Hi.

to get longer flight times i would look using the biggest flat bottom blades you can put on it. in addition to this you would have to look into going onto li-po packs to cut down on the weight and increase the available capacity on you cells.

weight is always a big issue with e-flight so you will have to make sure that it has been built as light as possible.

make sure that your motor / pinion are setup as well as possible to ensure that your motor is running to its maximum efficiency im sure someone on here will tell you what combination they are using to get max efficency as i dont use your combination.

hope this gets you started looking in the right direction.


atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
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01-14-2006 11:31 PM  13 years ago
NYAmpDude

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Babylon New York

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buckwheatsf,

Currently flying both the ECO-8 and the ECO-16 and have a bit of experiance now with both machines. Since you have the 16, I believe the very 1st comment I can make is . Be sure you understand that the mechanics to the 16 are the same as the ECO-8 and the ECO-8 compaired to newer designs is not all that strong, nor was it ever intended for the level of power of todays modern motor systems. With that said, the good news. I do believe you can set up your machine to provide
a fairly good lifting platform.

Most Heli pilots prefer Symetrical blades for their machines, I fly
mine with the Ikarus 67153 blades with the washed out tips. These
blades are actually about 480mm each. As I fly with 5 Series Li-Po
with an all up weight of about 4 Lbs and head speed about 1800, the machine is a pleasure to fly--very light and very aerobatic.

For lifting applications however, you'll want to stay with a semi-symetrical such as the stock ECO-8 blades, or even better a set of the 67151's. The machines ability to jump into the sky or carry loads
is simply amazing when compaired to full symetricals. Note: I've allways felt the stock ECO-16 blades or any blade over 500mm on the
16 was simply rediculous and only served to bend up the blade grip
shafts. At one point, I was flying my 16 with a jeti Phazor 45/3 w\ 24 tooth pinion, 16 sanyo Ni-Mh 3300, and stock ECO-8 wood blades
The thing flew real nice for curcuits and stuff for over 8 mins per flight. Head speed was low 17's but like I say it really did jump when you asked for collective.

Will post some pics on Monday. Good Day All !
The ground came up and hit me !!!
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01-14-2006 11:38 PM  13 years ago
NYAmpDude

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Ooow ..!

And by the way, If you going to spend money on a motor, Stay away from the Jeti 45/3 as it has a very limited maximum RPM. For the same
money get the MEGA 22/45/3, a much more flexable motor for the money.
Also my 16 currently flies on the MEGA 22/30/3, but this requires a
cooling fan and a heat sink.
The ground came up and hit me !!!
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01-15-2006 01:15 AM  13 years ago
buckwheatsf

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minneapolis, mn USA

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atb and NYAmpDude,

very valuable information! Thanks!

I'm very appreciative of the time and effort you're all taking to help out a newbie. Hopefully in a year or two I can help someone else in turn.

I'm overwhelmed at the moment but very excited about this. I need to study a little more before posting anything meaningful, but I do have a question. I have two gyros for some reason in this pile of parts ((Both heading lock, which I know I need). The one mounted is a CSM ICG400. I also have, new in the case, an Ikarus Profi-Gyro. Is there any reason to keep an extra gyro? And is there any reason to swap them out and install the Profi-Gyro?

I plan to switch to Lipo's at some point, which means I need a new controller (this one is an old gold-label JETI), and I'll get a new motor then too. But I'll probably fly this JETI 30/3 first because I have plenty of NiMH cells. Lipo is new technology that I don't understand - and I will need a new charger too. But it's winter here in Minnesota, so I have some time to plan this out.

From studying my pile o' parts, it appears that the previous owner crashed an ECO 8 and then bought a new ECO 16 kit. (I have two frames! I have three sets of blades: the stock ECO 16 longer wooden semi-symmetrical blades, stock ECO 8 480mm semi-symmetrical wooden blades, and a set of 480mm white painted flat-bottom blades. I have an Ikarus catalog but all the white blades look the same in the pictures so I don't know what model they are! Maybe 67151 since they're flat-bottomed?

NYAmpDude, looking forward to seeing your pics!

Thanks again!
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01-15-2006 08:10 PM  13 years ago
NYAmpDude

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buckwheatsf,

Given the stuff you'll be using, I would recommend you pick up
a Kontronics KK600 heat sink or some thing similar usually about
$15.00 from FXaeromodels. Note: that you may have grind away a bit
of it in the back to clear the frame struts.

With all your stuff, I think I would start as follows:
The Phazor 30/3 with 18 tooth pinion and kk600 heat sink
powered from 14 round cells. I've flown on 16 round cell but-boy-
35 oz of battery, 14 Cells would be better as it saves about 4.2 oZ
and I don't think you'll miss them plus, allows for a larger pinion
on the 30/3 which will make it eazier to clear the frame with the kk600 wrapped around the motor. I would bet those blades you have are the 67151s I mentioned.

Also: very important: Make sure you have the Hardened main shaft
and the blade grip shaft. If not sure replace them. A 6mm shaft
on a machine this size is really a little silly. Even with the
Hardened ones I've made it a habbit to keep a dial guage handy to make sure I have a supply of straight ones. Simply the price I pay to fly a machine of such little structure with this much power...

If the shaft shows any sign of gawlling around the position of the one way bearing, it's probably not the hardend part.
The ground came up and hit me !!!
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01-15-2006 08:20 PM  13 years ago
atb

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England

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if it works id just leave the gyro on thats mounted for the time being as it saves time and fiddling if it works dont fix it.

atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
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01-15-2006 08:50 PM  13 years ago
NYAmpDude

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O yes ...! forgot to mention, Leave the CSM Gyro, these work fairly
well. I can't think of too many BAD Gyros out there but if I had to name one it WOULD BE the Ikarus Profi Gyro, Mine ended up being used
in my fixed pitch Piccolo, were its not too bad. Otherwisw, myself I would sell it and perferably NOT to a friend .....!
Dam thing just doesn't have enough gain.
The ground came up and hit me !!!
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01-15-2006 09:29 PM  13 years ago
pulsar110

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USA

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I agree about the gyro. Had one when I first started flying. It was awful. Now I use a 401/9253 and havent looked back.Fly it like its a rental...
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01-15-2006 09:49 PM  13 years ago
buckwheatsf

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minneapolis, mn USA

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OK I'll sell the Profi-Gyro on eBay next week. DON'T BID ON IT!

heh heh, doesn't sound like that'll be a problem.
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01-16-2006 04:48 PM  13 years ago
atb

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England

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LOL so theres a good following for the profi gyro then.

I use a GY401 too it's all I have now as I think its a superb gyro.


atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
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02-19-2006 03:46 AM  13 years ago
mrbisset

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Huntsville, AL

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hacker motors??
Has anyone tried the Hacker outrunner the A-30XL in the ECO 16? I am looking at purchasing one and looking for a good motor?

Thanks

Caleb
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02-20-2006 12:11 AM  13 years ago
pulsar110

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USA

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Caleb,
Not that I have read about or heard of. I read ur post on the other board too. I have a new Eflight 32 waiting for me at the LHS to pickup tomorrow. Its going in a 16 with a scale body.
Most guys have been flying the Mega 22/20/3H on 3S lipo and having good results. I used that setup for a couple years and it works fine. If you want crazy power we are going with a Kontroniks FUN 600-18 and 4S lipo. There is a video of Chachin flying his on this setup thats fantastic.
There are a few guys that tried an Axi motor and they are ok but not alot of power. Others have been successful with the H8 but I havent seen one fly and cant say much about it.
Thus if you like try it and tell us all how it flys. Hope this hwlps ya a bit.
Fly it like its a rental...
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02-20-2006 01:31 AM  13 years ago
atb

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England

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I have to disagree with you on the axi motors im afraid mine is awsome i still aint full sticked i have +-10.5 degrees of pitch servo throws maxed out etc and havnt had a slight bit of bogging till well into my ni-cad & ni-mh packs (at least 2/3rds) i dont care what anyone says mine has more power than ill ever need and the climb rate is awsome.

in addition to this i also have scope for a couple of teeth less on the pinion too.

as a general rule outrunner motors are a lot more torquie and also more effecient i have read in a lot of places too.

but anyway thats just my tuppence worth i dare say a load of people will disagree each for their own and i wouldnt swap my axi for anything else on 12 volts.


atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
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02-20-2006 03:11 AM  13 years ago
NYAmpDude

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Babylon New York

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Evening All !

ATB: Think the guy was looking for a choice for the ECO-16
setup though. This means He's likely wanting to run either
4-6 cell li-po or 14 -16 round cells, Thus the motor should
have an RPM constant of no more then about 1400 RPM/V .

Though I do have an AXI 28/26/8 down in the basement that
I'd love to try and let yas all no how it works. ( Great deal
too, about $68.00 at hobby lobbys Thanks Giving Black Friday
sale ) . 1130 RPM per volt. Though as if time wasn't an issue
already, it been freezing here in NY lately. Maybe another couple
weeks.

Still worry about out runniers running cool enough though, and
because of this I'd still recommend a Mega 22/45/3 as the the best
no nonsense choice. This motor is just plane much more flexible with
the ways it can be used. (My Two Cents )

Barry
The ground came up and hit me !!!
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02-20-2006 03:13 AM  13 years ago
NYAmpDude

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Just remembered I had mentioned posting this.
The Fleet as of last Summer.
The ground came up and hit me !!!
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