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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterAudacity Models P6 Pantera - Tiger 50 › Venture swash, KandS arms along with some pics
01-14-2006 12:38 AM  13 years ago
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hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Venture swash, KandS arms along with some pics
Forum won't let me use K&S in the Subject.

I notice the Venture swash uses no antirotaion device but relies on the elevator lever. Is this a bad thing? I have one on my Tiger50 to try the play adjustment capability it has. There are three set screws that allow adjustment although I still haven't figured out what they really do. You certainly shouldn't deform a bearing with three point pressure. Where the anti-rotation pin is on the Tiger swash, there is a setscrew adjuster on the Venture swash. This may just be a temporary trial setup.

I also put a purple K&S seesaw and arms on it. They were designed for the Venture so I also had to use the Venture head as it's slighly different. It's wider at the seesaw mount points. Looks slick with the metal.

The Venture hub is on the left..

New parts..

Venture swash plate..

No anti-rotation...

Strobe on tail...
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep
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01-14-2006 01:07 PM  13 years ago
Learn to Fly

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Yalesville Connecticut

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I doubt that will hold up to flight. You need two points to stop rotation. No? The back side will move??

The Quick UK swash works great, its a little thinner so linkages will have to be ajusted. It only took 5 days to get to my door from the UK.

I like the see saw idea. I have the KSJ( K&S) see saw arms and flybar control arm. I see a Venture head and KSJ see saw in my future. I like bling!!

Jeff

Jeff
Believe nothing you hear, and half of what you see...
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01-14-2006 01:21 PM  13 years ago
hootowl

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Thinking about it, if the elevator arm is stable enough it should work fine. I'll bet there are others out there using the same method. I know for a fact JR Ergo and the EVO 90 degree setups use the for and aft elevator arms as anti-rotaion but that's two points out on the swash.

No you really don't have to have two points outside of the main shaft and the one (elevator arm). That actually makes two points of location control. If it didn't work how could JR sell the Venture that way? Also the Quick UK metal swash for the JR Venture also has no means...

I think the pin on the Tiger is a good idea and it seems Audacity made the decision to use it instead of the adjusters. These helis... Venture and Tiger, come from the same producers.

What aftermarket metal swash are people using for the Tiger50?

I just brainstormed and realized I could put a long screw in the rear adjuster location to act as an anti-rotation pin.

In the end I see a metal swash. I though Audacity was going to make a better swash available. The stock swashes on most lower cost and even some higher level helis seem to be less than desirable.
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01-14-2006 01:30 PM  13 years ago
Learn to Fly

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Yalesville Connecticut

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The QUICK UK swash for a ROBBE ORNITH works FLAWLESSLY!!! Foxden and I both have it...I test flew mine the other day. Its nice. Very solid. It comes in blue or silver.

I am almost positive that Venture swash will not work. Try a test with your hand...push the back of the swash side to side towards the Aileron and Pitch servos, if there is any travel... its BAD. All that would be holding it would be your linkage.

Jeff

Jeff
Believe nothing you hear, and half of what you see...
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01-14-2006 01:49 PM  13 years ago
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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I am almost positive that Venture swash will not work. Try a test with your hand...push the back of the swash side to side towards the Aileron and Pitch servos, if there is any travel... its BAD. All that would be holding it would be your linkage.
No it will work.

Yes there is a small amount of movement when you try and rotate it. This is due to combined side-to-side flex and play in the front elevator arm linkage. I don't believe it was meant to be the sole means of anti-rotation but JR decided it would work. Remember what you are doing here. All you are doing with that slight rotational movement of the swash is changing the cyclic timing ever so slightly. The amount should have little if no effect on flight performance. Think about it.. am I missing something here? Would JR sell a heli that didn't work? These are direct fit parts that can interchange between three helis designed from the same origin Robbie Ornith, JR Venture and the Tiger50. The elevator arms look to be just about identical. With the Venture they are relying on the elevator arm's mechanicals to provide vertical rigidity to hold the swash from turning.

What Audacity has done is have many of the feature of these helis redesigned to make it the standout better heli and it is. I would not argue that the non rotation pin is better as I agree, it is not! But it does work.

Lastly.... how much actual force is translated into rotational force applied to the lower half of the swash anyway? Only frictional forces through the bearing inside. Nothing is really trying hard to rotate the lower half of the swash. I'm also thinking about the forces applied at cyclic extremes which could be quite complex but I still don't see any major translated rotational forces.

Thanks for the direction on the Ornith swash. Looks like that's the better choice. I only tried this Venture swash because of it's bearing adjustment feature and I got it real cheap.

JohnB... ? What are your thoughts on this?
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01-14-2006 01:58 PM  13 years ago
B.Hofferth

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walkerton in.

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swash
venture swash will work on the tiger head. after flying two ventures for 3+ years, i don't see any benefits over the stock tiger swash but it will work fine. rear anti rotation pin is just another point to help reduce the load on the front elevator A arm, although it can handle the load on its own. brian.
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01-14-2006 02:00 PM  13 years ago
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Brian,

What about swash looseness? Is the Venture swash with it's ability to adjust play out any better than this sloppy Tiger swash with no means of adjustment? That's really what this little experiment I'm doing is all about.
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01-14-2006 02:14 PM  13 years ago
Foxden

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Port Charlotte, FL. USA

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Predator Swash
Guys,

My Century Predator swash has no anti-rotation pin on it, it has a rear elevator connection and the 2 front servo links that make up the 120 connections, the rear elev link is movable like the front on the Tiger, we run YS91's in the Predator P-Maxs and they are put through extreme 3D by Steven and we haven't had any problems.

I would say that running it without the anti rotation pin would defenetly work but it does help to strengthen it by having it held in place at both ends.
Clyde Fox
Port Charlotte FL
Team Outrage
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01-14-2006 02:20 PM  13 years ago
Learn to Fly

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Yalesville Connecticut

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I guess Im wrong, would be the first time.

I can say one thing though, if you want a RIGID swash go with the Quick UK swash. Its worth the wait and the money. Very well made.

I am off to the shop to get that See Saw...I tried already but it was to wide so I returned it. But with the Venture head it will work...NICE. Thanks

Jeff
Believe nothing you hear, and half of what you see...
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01-14-2006 02:25 PM  13 years ago
Foxden

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Port Charlotte, FL. USA

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Hey Jeff
See if Erwin has an extra Venture hub, part number JRP960968

I also have the KSJ seesaw for my experimental bird and would like to give it a try but need the Venture hub.

Very windy down here today so were going to hang at home and work on the Trex, give me a call from the shop, do you have my toll free number? I'll PM you if you dont.
Clyde Fox
Port Charlotte FL
Team Outrage
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01-14-2006 02:43 PM  13 years ago
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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KSJ (K&S) also makes one but it's pricey.

Like $98

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep
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01-14-2006 02:49 PM  13 years ago
Foxden

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Port Charlotte, FL. USA

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Hoot
Have you flown yours with the hub and seesaw installed?
Clyde Fox
Port Charlotte FL
Team Outrage
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01-14-2006 02:52 PM  13 years ago
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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No maybe today or tommorrow. It's raining right now. I'm still a new flyer so I will digress when it comes to comments on real world performance. I am the tinkerer though and love the mechanics of this hobby.Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep
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01-14-2006 03:30 PM  13 years ago
Foxden

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Port Charlotte, FL. USA

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Hoot
You and me both, I leave the flying stuff to my 13 yr old son Steven, I build'm and let him tear'm up.

I'm at the loop and roll stage and am progressing quickly on G3 but still shake the pant legs at the field trying new stuff, what a rush
Clyde Fox
Port Charlotte FL
Team Outrage
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01-14-2006 03:31 PM  13 years ago
B.Hofferth

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walkerton in.

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swash
hoot, in my past experience with the venture swash all of the play in it was because the center innermost part that molds the "smaller" upper bearing to the lower "bigger bearing has worn a little and had some play. never have i had to tighten the three outer setscrews for the "bigger" outer race. one thing that i did do was to wick in a "SMALL" amount of ca glue between the molded piece that rests in the center of the lower inner race. this did eliminate most of the play in the swash. be really careful not to get any glue in the bearing for obvious reasons. i see nothng wrong with the aftermarket swash assemblies, but i personally have never seen a need to upgrade this item. personal experience has shown me that an upgrade in servos, blades and paddles will usually show the biggest incerase in flight stability and quality of flight. brian.
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01-17-2006 02:35 PM  13 years ago
jvanscoyk

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Tucson, AZ

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The Venture is not the only JR heli without the anti-rotation pin.
The Voyager 50 also flies without the pin. I have had a Voyager 50 for 2+ years without any problems. The linkages up to the swash are as tight now as they were on the first flight. The elevator linkage supports it just fine. The anti-rotation pin is a nice safety blanket but it will fly just fine without it.

Jim
must go faster, must go faster.........
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01-17-2006 07:27 PM  13 years ago
Learn to Fly

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Yalesville Connecticut

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I looked at helishops Venture 50. I see how it works. The Elevator arm holds it in place.

Now on to the K&S see saw. I am using the stock Tiger Rotor Hub. I am also using the spacer collars that go into the see saw bearings that came with the stock Tiger. Now I am having the collars cut down to make the see saw rest in the middle of the hub at my buddies shop. I will then let you know how long the collars should be. So the stock Tiger rotor hub will work.

Quick UK makes a set of grips that will hold the 6mm spindle shaft. Its made for the Raptor. But I have been told they will bolt up no problem. If bling is what your after it would be a nice piece to add as well. about 80$.

He also said we could make any part you want. He has all the computer programs, and water jet cnc tables, and a wire cutter that they use for airospace tech( crazy stuff) Let me know if interested.

Jeff

Jeff
Believe nothing you hear, and half of what you see...
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