RunRyder RC
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1562 views POST REPLY
Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › prime bulb empting out
01-12-2006 10:56 PM  13 years ago
Topic Vote0Post 1
torque

rrKey Veteran

bolivia , north carolina

MyPosts All Forum Topic
prime bulb empting out
this is my second post on this matter. thought i had it fixed, but guess not.

today flew 3 tanks through my gasser, and each time i loose my prime.
if i fill my tank, by the time my tank is almost empty my primer bulb looses its fuel twice, and the engine leans out some. i have installed a new carb, made sure the insulation block between the carb and engine was true, no warping. new fuel lines, new fuel clunk in the tank. and made sure no air leaks in the pick up line. the heli runs fine, but i just don't want the engine leaning out.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-12-2006 11:37 PM  13 years ago
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
What gives the impression the engine is leaning out?Chris D. Bergen
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-13-2006 12:03 AM  13 years ago
Gary Travis

rrVeteran

Utah

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Sounds like there is a leak in the bulb itself.
Gary
Bergen R/C Helicopters Duralite Batteries DJI Innovations Magnum Fuels Wren Turbinesl
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-13-2006 02:12 PM  13 years ago
torque

rrKey Veteran

bolivia , north carolina

MyPosts All Forum Topic
chris
what makes me think the engine is leaning out is i have a temp. gauge on my heli. the type that the wire sensor wraps around the cylinder. the temp. indicates around 225 degree. and when the primer bulb goes empty the temp. shows around in the 260's

this is a brand new carb. i don't see any fuel around the primer bulb indicating that it may have a leak.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-13-2006 02:42 PM  13 years ago
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
And this higher temp is after flying it around a bit, or can you watch it climb in a hover?

I think you may be too concerned over something that is not really a problem.

I do not use a temp monitor on my engines. We tried it on the first Industrial Twins that used 2 separate carbs in an attempt to match them up. We ended up going with a single larger carb, and did away with worrying about the temp.

How is the engine running? Is it making good power? Any vibrations, fuel tank foaming? Does it quit on you?
Chris D. Bergen
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-13-2006 03:01 PM  13 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I got one of these!
I have one of those Bergen duel cylinder temp guages sitting on the shelf. The other day I was playing with it and I can get the needles to move with a heat gun. Cool eh? I thought maybe to install it on my BME 102 in my Sukhoi but after all its just bells and whistles. Anyone got a use for it and want to buy it?

If I remember right I think Larry told me once on the twin with this temp guage to not let the temp go above 400 as indicated on the guage. Chris correct me if I'm wrong. But in any case I think Chris is right, temp is not a big issue to be worried about and if the engine is running OK then you are probably in good range. I usually do the poor man's temp guage when in doubt -- I lick my finger and rub it on the side of the crankcase just behind the carb centered on the crankshaft area. If the spit sizzles than I think its running a bit too hot and will richen it, if it doesn't then its OK and temp is not an issue.

The fact that the bulb empties or not is not a good indication of anything wrong. I've flown many MANY flights and sometimes the bulb is fuller than other times. I don't pay attention to any of that and my engines run nice either way.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4264 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3392 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1808 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 705 flts
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-13-2006 03:24 PM  13 years ago
torque

rrKey Veteran

bolivia , north carolina

MyPosts All Forum Topic
guys
maybe i am making more out of it then i should. yes chris the temp goes up after flying it around a bit. the heli is flying great. tons of power. it has not quit on me yet, but i bring it in about every five min. or so to check the fuel in the bulb. when the bulb is almost empty is when i see the rise in temp. so i hit the primer bulb and go fly for another 5 to 7 min.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-13-2006 03:31 PM  13 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Don't even worry about the bulb...
Just push the primer bulb before you takeoff and after you refuel to get rid of air bubbles in the carb and go fly. Landing to reprime the bulb mid flight is not nececcary.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4264 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3392 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1808 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 705 flts
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-13-2006 04:00 PM  13 years ago
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
QUOTE........

what makes me think the engine is leaning out is i have a temp. gauge on my heli. the type that the wire sensor wraps around the cylinder. the temp. indicates around 225 degree. and when the primer bulb goes empty the temp. shows around in the 260's

this is a brand new carb. i don't see any fuel around the primer bulb indicating that it may have a leak.

END QUOTE..........

The leak would be fuel getting by the internal check valve back into the carb. You would not see anything external.

When you say the carb is brand new does that mean the primer bulb assembly is also new and it came mounted to the new carb or was it swapped from the old carb? Are you still using a two line system with no vent line?

Your temperature statement indicates cause and effect but as Chris implies in his question, &#8220;And this higher temp is after flying it around a bit, or can you watch it climb in a hover?&#8221;, how you collect the data makes a big difference on the interpretation. This is known as &#8220;Design of Experiments&#8221;. You would have to maintain constant throttle position with constant collective and let the fuel diminish until the primer bulb emptied, to arrive at your conclusion of &#8220;leaning out&#8221; based on temperature.

Your problem is very intriguing to me because you appear to be the only one experiencing this phenomenon. What is difficult for us is we can&#8217;t control how you conduct your &#8220;Design of Experiments&#8221;. We are all looking at the results through your eyes that get interpreted through your words.

Have you made any attempt to get an answer from Walbro? I am absolutely certain that their technical staff would know if you have a real problem and how to solve it.

Ace
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-13-2006 08:21 PM  13 years ago
Gasser Man 2

rrNovice

UK

MyPosts All Forum Topic
An over heating engine will cause the primer bulb to empty, it might be worth richening it up a bit.
Does it empty all the time or only if you work the engine hard ?
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-13-2006 11:24 PM  13 years ago
torque

rrKey Veteran

bolivia , north carolina

MyPosts All Forum Topic
ace bird
every thing on the new carb was new, including the primer bulb. i switched nothing. i thought by going to a new carb everything would be fine. when the weather gets better guess i will go fly about 5 to 7 min. hover in and if the bulb is almost empty or empty, just continue a hover until the fuel tank is empty, and see what is happening. i don't know what else to do. also i am running a pickup line from my fuel tank, a return line to the tank and a vent line.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-14-2006 01:58 AM  13 years ago
AGRAV8

rrProfessor

Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

MyPosts All Forum Topic
well, check this
make certain the vent line has not collapsed on any of the wraps around standoffs, etc. Also check the stens inside the tank, as it is possible that it is not allowing fuel to draw correctly.

open the low needle until you get a tail bump in hover (after warming up) every 10 seconds or so. Try that and see if it still goes dry.

what size fuel line are you using inside the tank? I use 3/32 inside the tank, then 1/8 from tank to carb and also for the return line.

As far as temps go, on a Predator I check the underside of the head (bottom of the heli) on the carb side. Scan around looking for the hotspot on that head. 275 is about all I want on a new engine, and after a couple tanks I want it around 230-250 degrees.

Note the head on the exhaust side will be higher. The carb side is what I reference to.

There should be NO breaks in the supply line (such as a filter, fueling point) from the clunk to the carb inlet. I realize there is one going thru the tank wall nipple, but that is all.
GOOD guy list-39, BAD guy list-0
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-14-2006 03:11 PM  13 years ago
torque

rrKey Veteran

bolivia , north carolina

MyPosts All Forum Topic
AGRAV8
i have the same size fuel line in the tank and through out the rest of the plumbing. 1/8. i will try opening the low end needle, but much more and it most likely won't run. i am at 1 1/2 on the low and the plug is dark. i have checked the vent line for kinks , that line is fine. thanks.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-14-2006 09:33 PM  13 years ago
AGRAV8

rrProfessor

Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

MyPosts All Forum Topic
1 1/2 should be enough
replace the stens filter next

get some 3/32 for inside the fuel tank
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-14-2006 11:09 PM  13 years ago
torque

rrKey Veteran

bolivia , north carolina

MyPosts All Forum Topic
ok will try that as soon as the weather gets better. snowing and in the hi 20's now.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-16-2006 02:38 PM  13 years ago
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
QUOTE>>>>>>>>>>

every thing on the new carb was new, including the primer bulb. i switched nothing. i thought by going to a new carb everything would be fine.

END QUOTE>>>>>>>>>>

You got me stumped. If the carb is new and you didn&#8217;t do anything to it I have to assume it is not the carburetor per say. Is the carburetor model right for the engine? Is the mounting block stock? Maybe the gasket is not aligned right with the ports in the base of the carb.

All I can suggest at this point is to try to contact Walbro for an answer. You bought a new carb; they should be willing to talk to you. Be persistent. You might get one of their flunkies first off but if you prevail he will run for help and it just might put you on the right track. Then you can tell us what is happening.

Where did you first get the engine? Don&#8217;t be afraid to push them to get an answer from Walbro, they would have more clout as an OEM.

Wish I could be of more help.

Ace
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-16-2006 10:54 PM  13 years ago
torque

rrKey Veteran

bolivia , north carolina

MyPosts All Forum Topic
acebird
thanks for the help. after i put on the new carb., i to thought the problem is not in the carb. the insulator block is stock. i trued it up to make sure i got a good seal. put on new gaskets and yes the port holes are all lined up. once the weather breaks i am going to fill the tank about half way and hover it around until the bulb emptys out and see if the heli will quit or what. thanks.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-17-2006 07:41 PM  13 years ago
mcoccia

rrKey Veteran

Central Jersey

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Question for AGRAV8
Sorry I don't mean to hijack the thread.

AGRAV8 in the picture below your saying that is a NONO to have a 3-way spliter.

SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-18-2006 01:49 AM  13 years ago
AGRAV8

rrProfessor

Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

MyPosts All Forum Topic
correct, NO breaks on the FUEL IN line....
it should be done like this:

a piece of small diameter tubing inside the tank running from the nipple on the inner wall across to the far side of the tank and U turns back to the center with the stens clunk centered in the tank.

Nipple protruding thru the tank wall.

larger diameter tubing from tank nipple external connection DIRECTLY to the input of the carb. This line will be PERMANANT, and should not be removed in normal service/operation.

There is a return line that goes from the carb back to the tank wall (same diameter as the one going in), I remove this from the carb to refuel.

A vent line (SMALL diameter) from top of the tank, wrapped around SEVERAL frame standoffs ABOVE the elevation of the fuel tank, and then routed out the bottom of the tank.

Now, if there is a 3 way in the RETURN LINE from the carb to the tank, I'm not opposed to that.

The thing to remember is this: gassers, unlike glow engines, won't tolerate an air bubble coming in the carb....it will kill the engine. That is paramount to avoid.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-18-2006 02:21 AM  13 years ago
mcoccia

rrKey Veteran

Central Jersey

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Thanks AGRAV8.

I am using 3/32 on the Return and to Carb. Should I be using 1/8 tygon.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1562 views POST REPLY
Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › prime bulb empting out
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 4  Topic Subscribe

Monday, September 16 - 7:29 am - Copyright © 2000-2019 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online