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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-AlignOther › My New 450SE and a whole lot of questions. :)
01-10-2006 12:27 AM  13 years ago
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supertux1

rrNovice

Madison, WI

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My New 450SE and a whole lot of questions. :)
So I'm trying this electric thing again after several years crashing nitros.(Okay flying too, Raptor 90) I have a hummingbird and a Hornet II CP both of which I was never able to get up and running and are
now in my junk box. (Absolutely crappy and so much slop.)

I was looking at the T-Rex last year around this time and concluded that it needed $500+ in slop-removing upgrades to make it decent.
Now the SE kit is out with all of that at a reasonable price.

So, I ordered a 450SE (Align 35A/430L) from Heliproz with a Futaba 6EXH radio + PCM rx and 4 S3103 servos. I got a CSM560 gyro + S9650 for the tail. (Love the CSM on my nitro.) I got two TP 2100 3S ProLite LIPO packs and the TP charger and balancer. I ordered some ferrite chokes from digikey. I got a Deans whip antenna that I'm too afraid to put on the 90 that I could use here.

So what do I have to do that isn't in the manual to make this thing not crash?

I've been reading the forum and so far I have come up with this:

1. Make sure there is conductivity between the boom, tail case
and frame. (sand anodizing, test with meter)
2. See if I can pop the swash plate apart with moderate force.
(fix with green loctite)
3. Check the tail hub for the crappy silver shouldered bolts.
(fix with 9mm bolts, or bug align, why do the mfrs always
screw this part up? Same deal on Raptors.)
4. Loctite the bearing in the motor can so it won't pop out.
(fix with green loctite)
5. Wrap the BEC/throttle connector with ferrite choke.
6. Keep the Deans whip away from the carbon fiber frames.
(Fold the excess wire, dont shorten the antenna more than
necessary.)

Am I missing anything?

Any particular settings for the 6EXH that I should know about?
(Swash AFR percents?)

I already have a Futaba 9C, I bought the 6EXH to use as a sim/training radio and also because it came with the PCM rx.
Do the servos (3103) that came with it suck? If it works
with the TREX, all the better.

Thanks.

(fingers crossed.)
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01-10-2006 02:43 AM  13 years ago
Soniq7

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Sacramento CA

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Thats a good list. Not to jack your thread but could someone elaborate on this:

1. Make sure there is conductivity between the boom, tail case
and frame. (sand anodizing, test with meter)

Oh yeah, and secure the endcaps on that 430 motor. Mine came apart first power up test.
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01-10-2006 04:35 AM  13 years ago
Kevino_heli_man

rrApprentice

Valencia, CA United States

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Just sand the end of the boom where the tail case goes on to act as a ground and prevent glitches from static electricity.

The one suggestion I would make on your list is the deans whip antenna. Most micro recievers have antennas that range from less than 24" to 28". The Deans antenna is made for full sized recievers that have like 33"-39" antennas, they have aalso been know to cause problems in micro recievers(glitches, Lockouts)
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01-10-2006 05:10 AM  13 years ago
supertux1

rrNovice

Madison, WI

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Okay so here goes

1. Make sure there is conductivity between the boom, tail case
and frame. (sand anodizing, test with meter)

(There's a thread on this somewhere, can't remember where. It
basically do with static build up from the rubber belt inside
the tube. If there are separate conducting surfaces, like the CF
frame and the tube, and one of them makes a whole lot of
static (think van de graff generator) it will cause glitches
as it tries to jump to the other surface. If it's all one
big conductor throughout, no problem. FWIW: This is what
crashed the Hindenburg. lol.)

2. See if I can pop the swash plate apart with moderate force.
(fix with green loctite)
3. Check the tail hub for the crappy silver shouldered bolts.
(fix with 9mm bolts, or bug align, why do the mfrs always
screw this part up? Same deal on Raptors.)
4. Loctite the bearing in the motor can so it won't pop out.
(fix with green loctite)
5. Wrap the BEC/throttle connector with ferrite choke.
6. Keep the Deans whip away from the carbon fiber frames.
(Fold the excess wire, dont shorten the antenna more than
necessary.)

And finally:

7. Secure endcaps on motor can (green loctite?)

And another step programming for the ESC:

8. 35A Align ESC Setup w/430L Motor:
BEC Lead connected to throttle channel.
1: Low Stick: No braking.
2: Low/Med Stick: Low or Med Timing (advice?)
3: Low Stick: %70 battery protection
4: Middle/High Stick: Helicopter/Helicopter Governor (advice?)
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01-10-2006 07:19 AM  13 years ago
JuanP

rrNovice

Bellville,Western Cape, South Africa

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Align 35Amp RCE-BL35G Speed Control Improvement
One of the posts will show you how to mod the ESC. Remove the heatsink from the heatshrink and apply it directly to the electronics. I think Bob posted the improvement...

By the way, great post as I am also currently assembling my trex se and was also busy slapping a short list together.

Another tip I found was to CA the carbon frame. I have the silver frame which is very soft and flexible and here and there the thin sheets seperate with a slight twist of the frame, so I decided to CA all the edges just for incase. I also used epoxy to glue the two bottom carbon frames to the plastic battery holder and it made a huge difference in the stability of frame...

Juan
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01-10-2006 06:16 PM  13 years ago
supertux1

rrNovice

Madison, WI

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Okay, keeping the list going, we have:


1. Make sure there is conductivity between the boom, tail case
and frame. (sand anodizing, test with meter)
2. See if I can pop the swash plate apart with moderate force.
(fix with green loctite)
3. Check the tail hub for the crappy silver shouldered bolts.
(fix with 9mm bolts, or bug align, why do the mfrs always
screw this part up? Same deal on Raptors.)
4. Loctite the bearing in the motor can so it won't pop out.
(fix with green loctite)
5. Wrap the BEC/throttle connector with ferrite choke.
6. Keep the Deans whip away from the carbon fiber frames.
(Fold the excess wire, dont shorten the antenna more than
necessary.) Maybe not do this if a mini rx is used.
7. Secure endcaps on motor can (green loctite?)

8. 35A Align ESC Setup w/430L Motor:

BEC Lead connected to throttle channel.
1: Low Stick: No braking.
2: Low/Med Stick: Low or Med Timing
Word is: Low timing = more efficiency, Higher = More power/heat.
3: Low Stick: %70 battery protection
4: Middle/High Stick: Helicopter/Helicopter Governor (advice?)
Word is: The Align 35A's governor sucks. Middle Stick.

Also FIX the the heatsink on the ESC:

[url=http://www.runryder.com/t219419p1/?highlight=Align+35A+ESC]

9. CA the edges of the carbon frames so they dont separate.
Epoxy lower frames to battery holder?
(Not sure about this, what if you crash and need to
replace one part that is permanently attached to two others?)
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01-11-2006 12:11 AM  13 years ago
cody69

rrApprentice

adelaide ,south australia

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You forgot one..Pull every bolt out that align put in and loctite it.
Align use crap loctite ..Thats when they remember to use it at all...
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01-11-2006 12:22 AM  13 years ago
Chugga-bug

rrVeteran

London UK

MyPosts All Forum Topic
One thing i think you've got a bit mixed up;
4. Loctite the bearing in the motor can so it won't pop out.
(fix with green loctite)

It's not the bearings you need to loctite. It's the end caps them selves that sometimes pop out of the can.

Checkout Finless's gallery for the fix.
"Up in smoke... that's where my money goes.."
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01-11-2006 02:51 AM  13 years ago
mustang347

rrNovice

Delaware, Ohio

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Great topic guys! Keep 'em coming!
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01-11-2006 04:49 AM  13 years ago
supertux1

rrNovice

Madison, WI

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Excellent, I'll just keep adding then, I love the suggestions.
This should save me (and anyone who reads it) money.
I want to know all this BEFORE I put everything together

1. Make sure there is conductivity between the boom, tail case
and frame. (sand anodizing, test with meter)
2. See if I can pop the swash plate apart with moderate force.
(fix with green loctite)
3. Check the tail hub for the crappy silver shouldered bolts.
(fix with 9mm bolts, or bug align, why do the mfrs always
screw this part up? Same deal on Raptors.)
4. Loctite the bearing in the motor can so it won't pop out.
(fix with green loctite - Maybe not necessary, check anyway.)
5. Wrap the BEC/throttle connector with ferrite choke.
6. Keep the Deans whip away from the carbon fiber frames.
(Fold the excess wire, dont shorten the antenna more than
necessary.) Maybe not use a Deans whip if a mini rx is used.
7. Secure endcaps on motor can (green loctite or pin them?)

8. 35A Align ESC Setup w/430L Motor:

BEC Lead connected to throttle channel.
1: Low Stick: No braking.
2: Low/Med Stick: Low or Med Timing
Word is: Low timing = more efficiency, Higher = More power/heat.
3: Low Stick: p battery protection
4: Middle/High Stick: Helicopter/Helicopter Governor (advice?)
Word is: The Align 35A's governor sucks. Middle Stick.

Also FIX the the heatsink on the ESC per Bob 'finless' method:

http://www.runryder.com/t219419p1/?...t=Align+35A+ESC

9. CA the edges of the carbon fraames dont separate.
Epoxy lower frames to battery holder?
(Not sure about this, what if you crash and need to
replace one part that is permanently attached to two others?)

10. Get the microheli tail grips and steel hub before
attempting 3D manuvers at high headspeeds with carbon
blades, $35.00:

http://www.microheli.com/mhshop/pro...hp?cPath=84&;products_id=273
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01-11-2006 04:56 AM  13 years ago
GoRgOyL

rrNovice

Fresno, CA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Don't forget to affix the bearings on the main blade grips with locktite, it reduces play in the grips, hence, blades track better.

Make sure the bolts that go in the feathering shaft screws in all the way, you don't want any slack on the rotor head.
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01-11-2006 05:16 AM  13 years ago
supertux1

rrNovice

Madison, WI

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Good Advice, Loctite / Sleeve retainer where applicable
and don't trust the monkeys at the factory. I just sort
of assumed this from nitros, but others might not so I'll
add it. I'm going to use this list as y manual 'addendum',
and maybe if some Align guys are paying attention they
can improve quality / instructions a bit more.

I love ARF airplanes, there isn't much that can go wrong save
for crappy glue joints and I don't have to mess with monokote.

I'll never understand the ARF helicopter.

1. Make sure there is conductivity between the boom, tail case
and frame. (sand anodizing, test with meter)

2. See if I can pop the swash plate apart with moderate force.
(fix with green loctite)

3. Check the tail hub for the crappy silver shouldered bolts.
(fix with 9mm bolts, or bug align, why do the mfrs always
screw this part up? Same deal on Raptors.)

4. Loctite the bearing in the motor can so it won't pop out.
(fix with green loctite - Maybe not necessary, check anyway.)

5. Wrap the BEC/throttle connector with ferrite donut choke.
Part number P12721-ND from http://www.digikey.com. Do this only
AFTER minimizing glitches by relocating the ESC up front
and the RX at the back. Test your setup with a PPM rx
first if you can, it will show you the ugly truth about
your wiring and signal. After passing that test, go
with the choke and PCM.

6. Keep the Deans whip away from the carbon fiber frames.
(Fold the excess wire, dont shorten the antenna more than
necessary.) Maybe not use a Deans whip if a mini rx is used.

7. Secure endcaps on motor can (green loctite or pin them?)

8. 35A Align ESC Setup w/430L Motor:

BEC Lead connected to throttle channel.
1: Low Stick: No braking.
2: Low/Med Stick: Low or Med Timing
Word is: Low timing = more efficiency, Higher = More power/heat.
3: Low Stick: 70% battery protection
4: Middle/High Stick: Helicopter/Helicopter Governor (advice?)
Word is: The Align 35A's governor sucks. Middle Stick.

Also FIX the the heatsink on the ESC per Bob 'finless' method:
http://www.runryder.com/...t=Align+35A+ESC

9. CA the edges of the carbon fraames dont separate.
Epoxy lower frames to battery holder for greater frame stability.
(Not sure about this, what if you crash and need to replace one part that is permanently attache to two others? Your call.)

10. Get the microheli tail grips and steel hub before
attempting 3D manuvers at high headspeeds with carbon
blades, $35.00:

http://www.microheli.com/mhshop/pro...hp?cPath=84&;;products_id=273

Probably okay without for hovering/learning on the 11t gear,
but a must for the 13t gear. Consider the new blue gears
for high headspeeds.

11. Put a thin layer of loctite on outer and inner bearings that
seat into metal parts to reduce slop. Not too much, don't want it 'stuck' forever or to gum up the bearing.

12. Don't trust ARF. Get the kit build manual.
Redo the factory ARF assemblies.
Pull it apart, reloctite and tighten all bolts everywhere.
Not too tight, don't want to crack the CF frame, strip
a thread or snap a bolt head off. (Been there done that )

13. Put the gyro underneath the tail boom mount to protect
it from the flybar. It doesn't care which way is up.
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01-11-2006 06:56 AM  13 years ago
The Sun

rrNovice

Mcallen, Texas United States

MyPosts All Forum Topic
My TREX SE, I need your help about how to set up the Radio control!
Hello every one. I have a TREX 450 SE. I have build complete TREX 450 SE. I have tried to set up futaba 9 C super to TREX 450 SE,but I can't how to set up. Some body knows how to set up , Please help me.Thank you very much your help.
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01-12-2006 01:07 AM  13 years ago
Chugga-bug

rrVeteran

London UK

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finless

What H/S do Align rate these blades for?

Got a couple of sets today and was wondering. Probably won't get a chance to fly for a couple of weeks though
"Up in smoke... that's where my money goes.."
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01-14-2006 07:34 AM  13 years ago
Hughes500Pilot

rrKey Veteran

Anaheim, CA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Good post. -Steve
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03-21-2006 05:52 AM  13 years ago
rfaster

rrApprentice

CA Bay

MyPosts All Forum Topic
SEV2 - Address any of these?
Does the SEV2 450 Trex address any of these fixes - or are they still all necessary?
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03-21-2006 08:45 AM  13 years ago
Colin Mill

rrVeteran

England

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Just a bit of info regarding the tail/gyro. We have noticed that the SE grips do increase the loads on the tail servo. With the 9650 servo there will be enough torque to overcome this but extending the tail bellcrank and using a longer servo arm is important to reduce the effect of linkage/airframe 'give'. This 'give' is an important element in the 'slow wag' problem that sometimes afflicts these models (especially in HL mode)

As the 560 Rev 4 has default internal settings optimised for 50 to 90 size IC (where the heli is relatively slower and the servos relatively faster than we have in the micro electric helis) its well worth making some changes via the interface:-

Increase the acceleration gain to 150 points (even 180 points if you plan to retain the SE grips and run a very high head speed)

Reduce the HL gain to about 2/3 of the default value.

Best regards

Colin
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