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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-AlignOther › Trex SE 430L motor smoked! *3rd time*
01-13-2006 08:19 AM  13 years ago
spork

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Mountain View, CA

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My kinda fun (drinkin from the buday is what I did on a France pic we have )
I took that pic a few weeks ago while I was in Italy preparing our systems for the Olympics. You can check out the rest of our adventures here if you're sufficiently bored:

http://ops.sportvision.com/Italy/Italy.htm
where the hell is Mountain View CA?
Mountain View is about 10 miles north of San Jose, and 30 miles south of San Fran. It's on the peninsula immediately south of Palo Alto. I used to live down your way, but moved up here in '89.
I LIKE YOU ALREADY!
I like you too! But to be fair, I like everyone on the count of my meds
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01-13-2006 01:05 PM  13 years ago
Cranium

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Orlando, FL

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finless,
In fact I was one of the FIRST people to complain of the motors coming apart! What did I do? I did not start a BASHING thread about how crappy things are,
That is my point finless. You had a problem and started a thread to point it out. You even came up with one of many ideas on how to solve it. I applaud you for this. Because it happened to you, you feel it's ok to complain about an Align product.

I have a problem and started a thread to point it out. I didn't know how to solve the problem but asked for help from the community and for ideas on why it happened. I haven't trashed align or stated their motors are junk. I've tried to identify what the issue is, correct it and then try again while sharing my experiences and results whether good or bad.

You, sir, are a bigot.

I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.-- Isaac Asimov
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01-13-2006 01:41 PM  13 years ago
Cranium

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Orlando, FL

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It's you fried them and tried to tell everyone that they suck!
ummm....find where I have stated this. I haven't. For some reason you are making up lies up along the way just to try to point the finger back at me. You've even attacked the build on my other helis. But when I challenge you that I can prove it's exactly like it should be, you claim the picture would lie even though it's the same picture you used to try to bash me. Why is this? Because you know that there is that possibility that I AM right and you didn't want to have to apologize. This would weaken your arguments and give you less credibility. You are much happier just bashing and doing the deny and defend dance for Align. I will again challenge you that I can prove my Sceadu linkage is correct. The loser of the challenge would merely have to publically apoligize in this thread and admit they were wrong. I would even use photo that you used to bash me (the un-cropped original) to prove my point so that you can't claim I changed it.

You say it's my problem? Have you tried to help me figure it out? I've been open to check and try different things. And no, sending my heli across the country at my expense to a complete stranger isn't help.

I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.-- Isaac Asimov
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01-13-2006 03:58 PM  13 years ago
Cranium

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Orlando, FL

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Someone has to hold the record on burning up motors. I'm not the only one (as you've seen) that has burned up motors though.

If it were up to me I would not have burned even one up. But setting up the heli according to Align's suggested settings appears to do exactly this. Andy has even admitted that high timing was drawing 38Amps when he tested it. (See earlier in the thread for a photocopy of their suggested settings if you don't recall).

If this is the case, why hasn't Align posted something official on this?
And if a motor failure occurs because ofthis who's fault is it?
And if the person gets the motor replaced and changes soemthing other than the timing because they thought the cause was something else, whose fault is this? After all, the suggested settings are still being followed.

I think I was the victim of multiple issues here which makes it very hard to determine what the cause was exactly. Perhaps high timing, perhaps an issue with wires, perhaps something else. But the fact is that the heli is set up according to the manufacturer's recommenations (as are my other helis). I do this to minimize issues.

I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.-- Isaac Asimov
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01-13-2006 04:57 PM  13 years ago
kookboy

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Vancouver, BC

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OK. You'll always be kookboy to us. We're gonna need more detail on the story, but you get bonus points for comin' out of the gate swingin'
Thanks for the bonus points. I can always use a few of those on rainy days

This turned into quite the Jerry Springer thread. Pretty darn good enjoyment.

I guess the point being is I hopped in here because I fried a motor and it turned out to be a defect.

Not sure how many there are out there. I'm sure mine was the only one.

I have a theory on why/how it happened:

The guy putting mine together was paying attention to the DD breasted new 19 yr old secretary walking in front of him on the assembly line. She looked at him and he was staring at her calzones. After that point in time, my motor received mindless-next-to-nothing attention, thus leading to the wire harness being loose.

How am I doing so far?
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01-13-2006 04:58 PM  13 years ago
kookboy

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Vancouver, BC

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Hey Finless,

I did your pins jobs on my motor and it's been holding up great
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01-13-2006 05:35 PM  13 years ago
spork

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Mountain View, CA

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The guy putting mine together was paying attention to the DD breasted new 19 yr ... How am I doing so far?
Yeah.... That sounds right. But she wasn't a she at all. She was actually, a cross-dressing male... lesbian... alcoholic...

I'm nearly certain of it.

RC

P.S. I don't wanna see anyone throwing chairs in this forum. OK?
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01-13-2006 06:01 PM  13 years ago
The_Widowmaker

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Bear Valley Springs, CA

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Hey finless .... I need a pin job on my motor "I'm a Virgin.. I'm just not very good at it. "
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01-20-2006 11:25 PM  13 years ago
Cranium

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Orlando, FL

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update.....

I've had some email discussions with Andy over the past couple of days. He is stating that they've recently received some burned up ESC and motors and are suspecting the cause could be related to the Hitec Electron 6 receiver. This is the same receiver that I've been using and was receiving glitches at a rate of about 1 per minute.

It seems that the glitching of the Electron 6 receivers may be sending spikes to the ESC. This hasn't been a confirmed cause but it is what they suspect and are still investigating.

He also stated that installing a ferrite ring (which I did before I installed my Medussa motor but after I burned up 3 Align motors) has eliminated my glitches. His suggestion of receivers when asked was any PCM receiver.

Who makes a good micro-size PCM receiver?

I also asked if my replacement motor would be one of the new ones with the threaded cans. He said he won't be getting these until February but that they changed the glue used in the current motors and they haven't had any reports of them coming apart yet.

I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.-- Isaac Asimov
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01-20-2006 11:36 PM  13 years ago
ShellDude

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East Coventry, PA

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In my experience PCM masks glitching... but it sounds like you've already done a good job of identifying your glitches and minimizing them.

Futaba has a decent PCM receiver, assuming you have a transmitter that'll do futaba PCM. I can't remember the model # but rest assured someone will respond with it.
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01-21-2006 12:24 AM  13 years ago
Cranium

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Orlando, FL

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Futaba has a decent PCM receiver, assuming you have a transmitter that'll do futaba PCM.
crap! I forgot about that.....PCM receivers only talk to PCM radios of the same manufacturer. I have a Hitec radio and the only PCM receiver they have appears to be the HPD-07RH which is almost 3 times the weight of my Electron 6. I'm using that Rcvr in my Sceadu 50 and it works well but it's too big to put in my Trex.

I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.-- Isaac Asimov
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01-21-2006 01:04 AM  13 years ago
cody69

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adelaide ,south australia

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The jr 770s rec is quite small, not to heavy.
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01-24-2006 08:55 AM  13 years ago
Dvient

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Westport, MA

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I can't believe that after reading this thread I am still typing, but I just gotta jump in this nightmare.

First,I am a newbie to the heli hobby, about 4 months or so, but love it. Anyway, having more money then brains I purchased a trex se. Put it together pretty easily, per instructions, and have flown it about four battery packs. As a matter of fact I joined today, looking for tips and help.

Well guess what, I saw smoke from motor and smelled the fried smell of electronics. I immediately unplugged, waited and replugged. How bout the heli soars into the atmosphere. Needless to say I crashed but good.

Reason why I am typing is I just read Cranium post on the Hitec Electron. That is the freaking same thing I was using. Anyway, I picked up the pieces, bought more parts and will up again soon enough. This time with a JR R700 rec.

If your laughing good. I didn't get into this hobby to take things too seriously.
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01-24-2006 12:55 PM  13 years ago
Cranium

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Orlando, FL

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wow....sorry to hear about that.

When you plugged it back in, it just spooled up on it's own and took off? At what point did it come back down?

I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.-- Isaac Asimov
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01-24-2006 01:25 PM  13 years ago
Dvient

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Westport, MA

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After I switched to normal mode on my radio the blades stopped. I increased throttle/collective but to no avail. Believe it or not it landed on the skids, but wicked (insert Boston accent) haaad. Both skids gone, blades history, spindle shaft and main shaft more bent then straight. All in all it was dramatic. But I had to laugh. I only wish I was recording my expressions when the freaking thing launched ito outter space.

Mind you I am a novice at this so 65 feet is outter stratosphere for me dude.
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01-24-2006 01:40 PM  13 years ago
Dvient

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Westport, MA

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I neglected to explain that after I re-plugged, I was able to hover but it was when I switched to stunt mode on the radio, to hold engine rpm, that when it took off. Even when I had the collective stick at the bottom it didn't listen. It was when I switched back to normal mode when the blades stopped.

I spoke to a friend at heliaddict who hypothosized that, after learning I was using Hitec Electron, that possibly the crystal came loose in the housing, or I damaged it in some way. He explained that from I what I explained it was most likely a rec. problem.

I had a new R700 so I just replaced it. Just waiting for the other parts.
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01-24-2006 08:47 PM  13 years ago
RaptorPraetor

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Carlsbad, New Mexico

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Our speculation, running tests with both PCM and PPM receivers, is that the Align Motor's EMF has been overloading the Align ESC back to the receiver, as the load was relieved off the motor, to the signal wire, confusing the ESC thus shutting off the motor for a split second and at times burnig up the ESC. The PCMs have been able to filter out this confusion but not the PPM. Our second test heli used the Elctron 6 and a hyperion ESC and the third heli in our test beds was a MX 400 and a quark 33 with Electron 6 (The original Mx-400 used the ALign Motor and ESC haveing the same problems). Both of these ESCs could handle the EMF overload and have not glitched the Elctron 6 since.

I have been talking to Andy Yu while we have been in this troubling shooting process as well as sharing our results with him and he said he was going to ask R&D to research this more.

Right now our conclusions are that (1) You should use a PCM receiver with the stock Motor and ESC and (2) If you do not have the PCM capability then get yourself a different ESC, the Hyperion 30 and the quark 33 are the two that are working for us. We do not have the funds to try more ESCs but I am trying to get some people to loan me some different brands.

Side Note:
WE had some other issues with glitching early on but that was resolved when we realized that we had a Van Der Graaff generator in the tail. We got conductivity throughout the heli from a tail box screw to battery tray screw. Living in Albuquerque were worried about Static discharge because we live in an arrid climate. However during testing we eliminated the theory.

Cheers
Patrick Mitchell
Hobbies 'n Stuff
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01-24-2006 10:02 PM  13 years ago
kookboy

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Vancouver, BC

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I no longer have a Electron 6 to test with but for some people I have helped it appears to have stopped the burn ups at spool up.

Can you also try that and see what you find?

BTW I might add that some using CC35's have also had this problem with PPM.

Bob

Too many hobbies not enough time ;-)
I have slow start disabled, running the 430L with a CC35, ParkBEC, Glitch reducer and a Hitec Electron 6.

Never any problems. Zero glitching. Zero roasting.. .well except for that one 430 but we won't go back into the Jerry Springer posts

Mounted the CC35 waay in the front, ParkBEC in the front on the opposite side of the CC35 and the hitec in the back with the crystal strapped in snug.



... But honey it was only $$$
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01-24-2006 11:06 PM  13 years ago
Cranium

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Orlando, FL

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If this theory is accepted as fact with Align then I would hope that they would take care of their customers. And I would hope that they would do a recall of the SE kits or as a bare minimum put a PCM receiver as a required accessory for the kit.

I bought the Trex SE so I wouldn't have to spend more money on upgrades and now I may have a motor and esc combination that may not be compatible.

I think a credit that could be used towards align parts in exchange for the ESC or motor would be adaquate and keep customers happy.

I've had no problems with the Medussa motor and Align ESC.

Finless, it's good to hear you admitting that it could now be an Align issue.

I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.-- Isaac Asimov
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01-25-2006 01:53 AM  13 years ago
adour mk951

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Collinsville, MS

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Finless,

I have the HDE version with the following setup:

430L 3550 KV
RCE-BL35G ESC
Electron 6
4 HS56 servos
Futaba 7CHP

I've had this setup since November and for the first month and a half it performed perfectly. With only the assistance of reading these forums and the cheap FMS simulator I have learned to hover both tail in and nose in and am now doing circuits and FFF. I HAD great confidence in my learning abilities and only a few minor mishaps. I thought I was immune to the glitches and cut outs mentioned since I did not own the SE version. Mysteriously, one weeks ago I started to experience 'light' cut outs that would drop the bird only a foot or so and I would always recover and go on. The ESC and motor have always run extremely cool and have not been a problem. I did your ESC and motor fix early on plus completely upgrading to all the Align CNC components, but this has all been quite a while ago. I run the ESC at 65% with no gov mode or soft start. Here recently the cut outs have come at the most inoportune times. Its like the setup knows that I'm coming in nose first (my most vulnerable position) and gives my a good sharp cut out to rattle my nerves. Its guarenteed that I'll get at least two per pack now and seems to be getting more intense as time goes on. I tried switching the ESC to the various other timing modes, with gov and soft start with the same result. I have not tried moving any electronics around as the setup was good for over a month as it was. I'm eagerly waiting for you guys to figure this out so I can quit worrying about the bird being destroyed by a mechanical failure and get on with my learning. I'm ready to go ahead and buy the PCM receiver, but am waiting to see the outcome of this post as I feel like I may be heading for an ESC swap as well...maybe even the motor if the ESC frys it.
John
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