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02-06-2006 04:23 PM  12 years agoPost 61
RMSLINKERS

rrApprentice

Audubon, Minnesota

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Some things about these small servos that may help you.
1 Never move them by hand always use your radio.
2 Check them by hooking them up to the 3 in 1. Check my gallery for center servos jpg for how I did this. I've had new ones that were bad before and exchanged them. My micron servos were OK and are working well.
3 Don't use CA to mount them. CA fumes can get to the pot inside through the small cracks and destroy the pot. Use epoxy, hot glue; or in my case 4 minute JP weld. Avoid using CA very close to these and other servos. The fumes will deposit a fine film on things and the pots are very sensitive.
4 If you trim them like I did ( at your own risk ) use a very fine tooth razor saw and be very careful. Hold them by the top and bottom only with your fingers. Make sure none of the dust gets in the cracks. Don't even try it with a razor blades or knife. Make sure you check them first to see that they are good before you trim them. If you screw them up you won't be able to exchange them so be careful!.
5 Never move them by hand or use CA of any type on them. I know from experience about this. I've messed up a couple of micro servos by accident!.
6 Use the 4 horn arms after you center the servos with your radio. Make sure your trims and sub trims are centered before you mount the horns. Find the arm that is centered best ( see servo trimmed in my gallery )only one will be real close. Each arm is offset so that one will be near center the others will be to each side of center. Mark it so you don't remove it by mistake!. Using a fine tooth razor saw ( with the horn off the servo ) remove the other 3 arms and sand the hub smooth. Now you can mount the horn on the servo while the radio is on so it stays centred. Hold the horn when you screw the screw in so you don't strip the gears.
Follow the directions to mount them. I used the tape for the top servo after mounting the bottom one using 4 minute JP weld. See the photo in my gallery servos mounted. This is very critical and hard to do. Swash ball needs to be over inside of the arms outer hole and hub should be very close to the main shaft post. Takes a steady hand but isn't that bad. Just do dry runs on both to get the idea of how to position them first. Some people recommend having the control arms on the swash but I just eye balled them and they came out great. Good luck

If it isn't beating the air up it isn't flying

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02-06-2006 04:42 PM  12 years agoPost 62
bscfo1

rrApprentice

Tampa, Florida - USA

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RMSLINKERS,

Very helpful post, I did all the wrong things with the first set of servos. Too bad I didn't know this stuff. Current set is perfect.

It's interesting how some people mount these. I've seen them mounted vertically and not stacked. It looks right, close to the main shaft, and how you would expect to see them mounted in a micro heli. I wonder why Precision doesn't recommend that?

It's curious because I probably would have done it that way intuitively. The edge of each servo would fit nicely on the flat on each side. Nothing would hang off the edge. Oh well - I just followed the directions.

The Micron flys a lot better than my "RTF" Honeybee CP2. I just found out (after I crashed) that the collective pitch sticks, because they put the bearings in the wrong order on the head and it binds.

But I digress.............

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02-07-2006 01:06 AM  12 years agoPost 63
mike50

rrNovice

hazleton, pa.

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thanks for the reply. i did take great care in putting the micron together. the servoes are set perfect and i used sticky tape with a small pc. of plastic that i used a small screw to mount to the frame, to help support the crappy servo mounting.i did notice like i stated before that the top servo twitches a small bit.i have spent many hours working on this heli and talking to precision heli.

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02-07-2006 05:08 PM  12 years agoPost 64
RMSLINKERS

rrApprentice

Audubon, Minnesota

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Mike50;
These small micro, micron type FP helicopters take a lot of work to get flying very well. The larger 30 and 50 size aren't that critical to set-up in certain areas. On these small ones the swash to fly-bar arms and paddles are very critical. With the servos centered the swash needs to be level to the head both front to back and side to side. With the fly bar level both of the fly-bar arms must be in line with the head. Close enough won't work it needs to all be perfect; or really close to it!. I check this by spinning up the head at about 1/3 throttle and making sure the fly bar is in track without the blades or paddles. If you see any separation in the fly-bar the swash may not be level but more then likely its the fly-bar arms aren't level. work at it until the fly-bar tracks perfect!. Now you can install the paddles so they are aligned with the fly-bar arms. Very critical that they are totally level with the arms. I use my tach and spin the head up to hover RPM without the blades about 2500 RPM. Don't use full throttle as it may throw a paddle!. 1/3 throttle is usually about all you need!. Check to see that the paddles are in track. If you had the fly-bar tracking than you may have the paddles a little off. Adjust them until they track by checking that they are aligned with the arms and the fly-bar tracks level. If you did this set-up right the servo arms will be level with the swash and centered on the servo. Your control rods to the swash must be bent very close so when the arms are centered on the servo the swash is level!. A little trim is ok but a lot and it won't fly right. If one servo arm is low say about 1/4 inch off the servos center and the other is high to get the swash level your arms aren't right. Even if the fly-bar is tracking you'll get a lot of cyclic differential and it will be hard to control. Its the old 90 degree rule for all helicopters. Servo centered with the rod at a 90 degree angle to the servo arm and the swash level!. If all this is right your mechanical set up should be good. I don't know what version you have or radio your using. The older version had separate mixer board and gyro. You need to use the weights during set-up since it came with the older type paddles. I have the newer version with the 3 in 1 and thicker paddles so my settings may not help you. I'm not using the fly-bar weights and made a steel fly-bar that is 3/8 inch longer. I have my gyro set at 70% and the mixing at around 20%. I'm using revo mixing on the tail to get it smoothed out and a flatter throttle curve around hover. There are pictures in my gallery of these curves. The revo is a 5 point mix but the throttle has 13 points. You may get close with a 5 point throttle curve. I'm using a standard type swash set-up for the radio!. Make sure you don't use a CCPM type swash setting on your radio!. On a futaba its a S-1 type swash. I spent over an hour tweaking the radio settings to get it flying fairly well now. Still a little tail surge the first minute but it settles in after the battery is down a little. Cyclic is a bit touchy but some negative expo will cure this. I don't use expo!. I like them real touchy on the cyclic. Mine flies a little more stable than a stock GWS dragon fly or about the same as a century humming bird FP V 3. Not to bad for such a small helicopter. I've been messing with these micros's now for over a year and a half; all types!. I have 17 years experience with 30 and larger fuel type so I can fly fairly well. These micro FP type will never fly like a larger 30 or 50. They are fun during the winter and give me some real stick time. Yes they are a hand full but give you good flight experience. Come spring my larger ones are a piece of cake to fly compared to these. You just have to be one step ahead of these things. Not for everyone but a lot of fun during the winter for me.

If it isn't beating the air up it isn't flying

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02-16-2006 03:25 PM  12 years agoPost 65
bscfo1

rrApprentice

Tampa, Florida - USA

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Here's something important about the new 3 and 1.

Thanks RMSlinkers!

Wiring

If you checked my gallery for the receiver picture you can see the 2 rear plugs ( 3 in 1 ) have the wires white, red, black and the 2 front plugs ( servos ) are white, black, red. Strange but that is the way it came!. I plugged it in and never played attention to the colors since the plugs are keyed. Noticed the colors not being right while checking the receiver to see if it was a new type Blue Arrow one. All the ones PH is using now are made by Blue Arrow but the older ones had the positive in the middle. The new one has the positive on the outside like mine. Most all receivers are wired with the positive in the middle so that if you reverse the plug by mistake you won't damage it. Why Blue Arrow changed on their new receivers is any ones guess. PH must have thought that when they went to the new receiver it would be easier to solder the wires on the 3 in 1 so the black is positive and red is negative rather then change them at the plug before soldering to the 3 in 1. At least this was what happened in my case. Kind of dumb for them to do this but hey it saved them some time since they get the plugs this way and only have to solder wires to the 3 in 1!. Guess some times who ever is soldering the wires forgets to hook them up so red is negative and black positive. May be why some peoples work and some don't of the newer kits. I know they wouldn't open the servos to re-solder the wires so they are the best way to tell if your receiver is new type or old type!. If your servo plug is white, black, Red then it's the new type receiver; with the positive on the out side. I would check with a volt meter just to make sure of the polarity; but I doubt they would open the servos to reverse these wires. They would change them at the plug so they were white, red, black for the old type receivers. Best way to tell the type of receiver you have!. If you get the 3 in 1 in the future you need to take a volt meter and check to see how they soldered to wires to it: Before you plug it into the receiver!. Plug the battery into the 3 in 1 and check with the meter on the throttle plug if the red is positive or the black is. This is usually where the bec gives voltage to the receiver. I doubt if they would use the rudder plug for the bec it would be to strange if they did this. They may have started to correct this by now but better safe than sorry. Once you know the positive color you can change it at the plug so it is going to the same point your servos red wire is at. Make sure the rudder plug is wired the same as the throttle plug also!. Both plugs from the 3 in 1 to the receivers should be the same weather it's is white, red, black like mine or what ever works for the receiver you have!. Got that?. Kind of confusing but very simple really once you know what you have!. Really a dumb thing for them to do IMHO!. I may re-solder the wires on my 3 in 1 and change the plug around later on; so I won't forget if I remove the 3 in 1 up the road and use it on another project. I Like red to be positive and black negative the way they should be. Now you know just enough to be dangerous or I would hope so. More on my latest mods later tonight or tomorrow.

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02-16-2006 04:01 PM  12 years agoPost 66
RMSLINKERS

rrApprentice

Audubon, Minnesota

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Thanks bscfo1 for posting this information for me. Anyone reading bscfo1's post needs to look in my gallery for the receiver picture. I think he forgot to mention that. bscfo1 you need to start a gallery if you have a digital camera. If not maybe some one you know would take a few pictures for you. I'd like to see how you have your stuff arranged on it. There is no cost but you can pay the $20 to Mark so you can post any time also. RCGROUPS lets you post any time no cost also. Check your PM I just sent one about the other stuff.

If it isn't beating the air up it isn't flying

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02-19-2006 02:37 AM  12 years agoPost 67
bscfo1

rrApprentice

Tampa, Florida - USA

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Does anyone have any tips on getting more life out of the main motors? I'm using the 8 gear pinion with the 76 main gear. My lipos are 2 cell 250mAh.

Why do mine seem to burn out so fast? I put in a new motor last week and it's already sagging early. Today I averaged 2.5 minutes.

My Micron flys great, maybe I fly it too much? I THOUGHT I could get 30-40 ten minute flights out of these brushed motors. I don't want to put a new motor every week in this thing. I love it, but not that much. Funny thing is, the tail motor is still as strong as the day I got it. What's up?

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03-07-2006 04:26 AM  12 years agoPost 68
Nem Jr

rrNovice

Barryton, Mi. USA

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Regarding the Micron
New bodies are now available for your micron..... other parts also available....check out thids thread

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...3&page=69&pp=15

Nem Jr.

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03-17-2006 06:23 PM  12 years agoPost 69
blackhawk0786

rrNovice

orlando, florida, USA

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micron help
can someone tell me what to do cuz i already put my micron together
and all it does is jump around a little it never takes off. ive tried
different things to make it fly and it still wont work.At full throttle it jumps around and then tips over. im 12 years old and bearly have heli experience. the only heli ive flown is a honeybee.
can someone please help me.

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03-19-2006 01:04 AM  12 years agoPost 70
MiniBoy

rrNovice

Webster MA

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Blackhawk:

WOW .. you picked a tough heli for your first efort. This is a heli that you really need some experience to build, as the instructions are not very detailed, and leave many steps to one's imagination.

All model helis need to be very carefully set up to get the control linkages as close as possible to neutral ( level swashplate, flybar link arms and flybar paddles, in the case of the Micron, are SUPER important !) when the servos are in their centered position. And, the smaller they are, the more precise the setup has to be! I would suggest you go back 6 or 7 posts to where Bscfo and RM Slinkers discuss this subject, and see if you may recognize any mistakes you may have made ?!? Then come back with some comments, and someone will try to give you a hand I'm sure. It would also help if you outline the setup you have, as in stock complete with transmitter from Precision Heli, or whatever equipment you may have. Posting some pix to your gallery would also be a great help.

Chat later,

Russ

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03-20-2006 05:37 PM  12 years agoPost 71
bscfo1

rrApprentice

Tampa, Florida - USA

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blackhawk0786,
I agree with Miniboy, the Micron is a very tough heli to learn on. I had trouble at first too, and I'm an experienced pilot. Even when it's set up right, it will still take practice. You will get it eventually though.

Check ALL the previous post for setup tips. The biggest mistake people overlook is the alignment of the swash, paddles and control arms. Make them perfect. Good luck.

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04-10-2006 07:38 AM  12 years agoPost 72
billdapart

rrNovice

santa barbara, ca. usa

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i give up
I feel horrible.

I'm not entirely new to helis.. I've built and succesfully piloted 3 t-rex (one scale) 2 hummingbird 3d pro's, 2 raptor 50's, and an e-voyager. I also have been helping a friend put together a new century gasser just recently.

My girlfriend bought me a micron kit for our anniversary (i love this woman) and I was so excited. So I went out and bought the rtf so I would have everything I needed to fly it and then some.. (full kit of spares and three battery packs.)

I've been religously working on this thing for two weeks trying to get it to lift off the ground without carrying aileron or elevator full force into the ground. I'M FED UP!

With all I've put into this thing, centering and re-centering and making sure everything is dead level time and time again and re-distributing weight front, back, left, right.. I just can't believe that this thing could ever fly as well as in the videos.. it's freakishly impossible.. or the one in the video is NOTHING like what i have here.

I need some words of encouragement here, that or somebody who wants to buy the whole mess off me so I can go build something else and stop pulling my hair out.

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04-10-2006 02:47 PM  12 years agoPost 73
bscfo1

rrApprentice

Tampa, Florida - USA

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billdapart,

Sorry you're having trouble. ALL of us have felt this way. Good news: You have a fantastic girlfriend, and you can make this micron fly.

You mentioned the alignment of the swash, flybar control arms, and paddles. That's one of the most important things. But - with mine, the entire control system would slip and cause control problems. Do this: Get everything aligned, then use a pin drop (literally) of CA on the outside of the flybar control arms (away from the bearing) to keep it in place.

If you're using the weights, CA them (pindrop) to the flybar in the middle. You can forget the weights and fly without them too. It WILL fly fine.

Mine also slipped on the servo control arms at the clevis. I CA'd those as well. Don't worry about the CA, it you ever need to remove it, just heat the metal or carbon fiber briefly near the joint with a low watt soldering iron and the glue will melt. Don't CA anything near the servos, the fumes WILL get inside and ruin them. Remove them from the body and set them aside. Also check your servos, if they are jittery, you may already have a problem. They are fragile and can come apart easily, which can cause centering problems. Use JB Weld Quik set (thanks rmslinkers) to attach the bottom one to the frame. Hot glue works too, but remember, the servos cases are thin, and you can melt them if you're not careful with the gun. You can use the supplied foam tape to attach them together to each other. Try to get the control arms going to the swash as vertical as possible.

Check your swashplate for separation, they are notorious for this, AND the control problems it creates. You can CA the race to the plastic. Be careful, use that pindrop.

Angle the tail rotor about 5 degrees clockwise to help with lift and lesson the effect of blowing it sideways. Use the hot glue so you have some time to adjust before it dries. Easy to remove too.

When setting up the tail mixing, use a low number (12-15) and raise the gyro a little to 75%. Helps dampen the tail pulses. If you have a computer radio (works best) use the throttle curve to set it up flatter around hover which will probably be around 70% stick. Use throttle to tail mixing if you have it, that will also dampen the torque changes as well.

Finally, do you initial trimming on tile or something similar. You can tell how much to counteract against the torque and sideways blowing from the tail easier. Just do some low hops, and gently bring it down. Practice getting it to rise somewhat straight up.

Now take it to the carpet and try there. Remember, it's so small, anything can move it around, a fan, a light breeze, the airconditioner. So close the doors and turn all those things off. It hates ground effect too, so you're going to practice getting it out of it here.

If you do all this stuff, all you need to fly this thing is practice. It's really very different from what you're use to. It's a totally new skill really, so don't give up. Hope this helps. Let me know how you're doing.

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04-11-2006 07:11 PM  12 years agoPost 74
Hoverdown3K

rrKey Veteran

Rochester, New York

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Can this helicopter do anything more then un-stable hovering?

I can't see this as better then a Lama 2 or Blade CX. those are the best small room / indoor choppers hands down.

I wanted a Micron, but after seeing the videos, I'll pass on this chopper. I have read review after review of this chopper and no one has any decent flight videos.

Only videos I have seen are hovering and it not too stable at that.

What about using this at an indoor fly in a gym... any videos?

-= I know there is Money in RC helicopters. I put it there=-

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04-11-2006 07:33 PM  12 years agoPost 75
bscfo1

rrApprentice

Tampa, Florida - USA

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Hoverdown3K,

It's all in the setup. Mine flys really good, but it's no match in stability for the coaxial helis. But - I like the challenge. If done right, it's only a little more challenging than any other fixed pitch bird out there. If flown indoors of course.

My biggest gripe is the flight times. Short and Shorter. Haven't figured that one out yet. The bearings are probably shot though.

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04-11-2006 07:57 PM  12 years agoPost 76
billdapart

rrNovice

santa barbara, ca. usa

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selling
I'm selling my micron gear.

one full "rtf" bird (it's been put together and had initial setup done.. comes with everything needed to fly bird)
one partial kit (has everything except the flybar rod and flybar weights)..

one canopy is cut and mounted but not painted.

Comes with three 2 cell lipo batteries and a crash kit.

As I said above I've given up trying to get this thing to fly right. I'm sure a more experienced set of FP hands could do it, but I've got too many projects on the bench as it is.

Want to get 325.00 shipped for it..

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04-11-2006 08:35 PM  12 years agoPost 77
bscfo1

rrApprentice

Tampa, Florida - USA

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Sorry to hear it. Good luck.

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04-19-2006 05:27 PM  12 years agoPost 78
helijohn

rrApprentice

UK - Birmingham

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Stage I
I am just about to fix the tailboom into the boom mount. How far down (or in) should it go? It says all the way to the motor mount but then wires can't be passed down the boom! Also, any preferences for where to CA it?
Thanx

Why simplify when it's simpler to complicate.

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04-19-2006 06:42 PM  12 years agoPost 79
bscfo1

rrApprentice

Tampa, Florida - USA

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helijohn,

Leave just enough room for the wires to pass through. Mine was a nice snug fit, so I just used a pin drop of CA in the holes of the frame were you can see the boom pass through.

Don't forget to read this post for tips. It's great. If you get hung up on anything, write in and I'll help you through. This little bird is a challenge, but if you build it carefully and set it up right with a decent radio, it will fly pretty darn good. Good luck.

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04-26-2006 02:48 AM  12 years agoPost 80
spooky

rrNovice

Spain

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Hi, everybody! (specially bscfo1, who mentioned this thread on a link I followed)
Glad to find a place where there is some Micron discussion... helijohn, I don´t know if I come too late and I see you were asking for some help regarding the Tiny Guy...
I have built more than one (and more than 2, well indeed a number of them) and I can tell you it can fly very well in small indoors, much better than any other I tried until now, including another heli you mentioned on the other posts, that is a bit bigger, (the BB).

I would like to add my contribution here, there is a tip about the tail boom, some tricks to get a good setup in the flybar and rotor, and other mounting ideas...
http://www.maxrpm.rchomepage.com/rc...ome_000001.html

I hope I will be adding some more tips soon, some colleagues from the forums are sending me their tips as well.

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