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HomeAircraftHelicopterCentury Radikal G20-30 N640 Hawk Predator › Starter HEX ADAPTER Problem
11-14-2005 03:51 AM  12 years agoPost 1
RevGadget

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Decatur, Alabama

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I 'm new to Hawk line of heli's. The problem I'm having is with the Hex Adapter on the starter shaft. On my first start of the day, it keeps slipping on the shaft. I'm using a 12v starter on an OS37 SX. I used Blue Lock-tite on the set screws, and tried to make sure that one of the set screws was on the flat of the starter shaft. Can someone give me a remedy or some advise?


3D2me= One eye on the Tx, one on the Heli and my thumbs in between.

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11-14-2005 04:13 AM  12 years agoPost 2
Al Austria

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Gainesville, FL

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I had the same problem. Red thread lock should cure that for good.

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11-14-2005 04:27 AM  12 years agoPost 3
RevGadget

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Decatur, Alabama

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Thanks for the advise Al. I hesitated to post this problem, but did so anyway because I dreaded pulling the head assem and top of the Airwolf for the 4th time. I took a closer look and it appears the Hex Adapter was too low and missed the hole for the set screw on the shaft. Red lock-tite would certainly keep the set screw in there!


3D2me= One eye on the Tx, one on the Heli and my thumbs in between.

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11-14-2005 03:33 PM  12 years agoPost 4
BrunoB

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Quebec, Canada

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I also use red lock-tite on the set screw and on the shaft.

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11-17-2005 01:13 AM  12 years agoPost 5
MikeInMobile

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Mobile, Alabama

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The start shaft has a dimple in it. The set screw MUST tighten into this dimple to prevent the hex adapter from turning on the shaft.

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11-17-2005 02:27 PM  12 years agoPost 6
RICH.L

rrKey Veteran

gentry arkansas

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one more thing that i messed up on,make sure you clean the shaft and adapter off real well or even red loctite won't work!
rich

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11-17-2005 04:25 PM  12 years agoPost 7
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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I've been flying small Century helis for several years, have never had a hex adapter come loose, have never used anything but blue locktite, but I do make shure the set screw is set into the dimple. Just my experiences.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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11-17-2005 06:26 PM  12 years agoPost 8
jackheli

rrProfessor

Vancouver - Canada

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The hex adapter has room for two set screws. Use both! File a small flat on the shaft where the second screw would go. That took care of the problem in all my helis.

It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.

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11-17-2005 06:41 PM  12 years agoPost 9
BC Don

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Calgary, AB Canada

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I've never had the problem. Don't know if this makes a difference or not but one of the things I do is when I first insert the starter shaft I rotate it backwards a turn or so to make sure that the engine isn't hydrolocked (one compression stroke) and everything is seated properly.

Got Money? Send it to me, I'm a Heli Addict.

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11-17-2005 07:19 PM  12 years agoPost 10
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

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BCDon makes a good point.

Many newbies try to turn overly rich or almost flooded engines forever when trying to get them to start. Of course in this situation they never will start, but one just keeps turning them over. This will heat up the start shaft to a temp that can even loosen lock tite on the grub screws that secure the hex adapters!!!

I have seen this happen to newbies with many different types of helis.

I do not know if the new manuals come with the same starting instructions that were on page 42 of the older Hawk IV manuals which covered starting for the newby very well (A whole page was dedicated to it!)

How does the engine become overly rich or flooded for starting?

a) If one is using muffler pressure, one can carry the heli in such a way that raw fuel can flow from the tank into the muffler. Consequently the next time one goes to start the engine this raw fuel will be sucked straight into the engine cylinder!!

I have emptied mufflers that had more then a few ounces of fuel floating around in them. To do so one must SEAL off the muffler pressure line, turn the heli so that the muffler is pointing down and allow the fuel to drain. (One may have to do this more then once as the raw fuel that may be in the crankcase is blown back into the muffler from subsequent starting attemps.) NOTE: just be sure to open the pressure line again before attempting another start.

At this point, tilt the heli at 45 degrees towards the muffler side and turn over with the starter to insure that ALL raw fuel has been purged from the engine.

NOW connect the glow driver and try to start again. Usually it will fire right up.

b) The next flooder, again with a muffler pressure line connected, can occur when one blocks off the muffler exit and cranks the motor over with the starter to "prime" the engine.

I have found the best and safest way to insure one will prime the engine WITHOUT flooding it is to:
1- INSURE the glow driver is DISCONNECTED
2 - Move the throttle stick to HALF throttle
3 - Turn the engine over for about 15 to 20 seconds (a regular 30count)
4 - Now MOVE the throttle stick to IDLE
5 - Now Connect the glow driver
6 - Turn the engine over with the starter and it should fire up very quickly.

If it doesn't try the priming part one more time. If it doesn't again, then maybe the glow plug or driver has a problem as your engine should now have all the fuel it needs (asuming the needles are set within a reasonable range)

Phil

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11-18-2005 02:33 AM  12 years agoPost 11
RevGadget

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Decatur, Alabama

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Thanks for the input group. Points understood. This problem developed when I put the mechanic's in the Airwolf fuse.
The engine had only about 3 gals of fuel throught it on my other bird.

I will not hesitate to say that I don't like the Hawk starter set up. However, you get what you pay for. Also, I was impatient. I had an appointment at nine and a wedding to attend at 1:30. On top of that, it was 8:30 and the wed-to-be couple pulled up with some last minute changes while I was trying to start it. That is when it first happened. So I canceled the 9. As in my reply to Al, I knew it was some simple little item I over looked in my hast. I had simply missed the set screw notch on all attempts to fix it. And I did use both set screws. I changed the glow plug just in case and now it starts without problems.

Again, Mega Thanks.


3D2me= One eye on the Tx, one on the Heli and my thumbs in between.

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12-08-2005 05:32 AM  12 years agoPost 12
Lear31A

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Hattiesburg, Ms

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I am building one
The problem I am having is the instructions does not say where the collar should be placed (how far up or down). I positioned it where the spring has alot of tension on it and the starter shaft will not spring back up after being pushed down?? How do I correct this or do I need to? It does not seem to slide very smoothly in the shaft guides. Any ides?

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12-08-2005 12:34 PM  12 years agoPost 13
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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Lear31A,

First, oil the shaft where it slides in the bearings. If the shaft will not pop back up after being pushed down and engaged with the fan, the engine is probably not straight in the frames. Try loosening the screws that hold the engine mount to the frames, engaging the start shaft, and with the shaft engaged, retighten the screws. Adjust the collar that holds the spring tention so the spring is fully compressed when the start shaft is in the full down possition.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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12-08-2005 12:43 PM  12 years agoPost 14
RevGadget

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Decatur, Alabama

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SteveH is right on. However, make sure you did this according to the manual:

Slide the M5x10 Collar spaced approximately 29mm from the top of the start shaft and partially tighten with one M3x4 Set Screw followed by the second bearing block. Next apply threadlock from the top of the
shaft to just past the indent and slide the Hex Coupler to align over the indent in the shaft. Secure with two M4x4 set screws aligning one to the indent, using threadlock. Apply some lubricant on the shaft after assembly to ensure smooth vertical movement inside the inner races of the bearings when engaging and disengaging of the start system.

When removineg the hex start wand after the engine is started, it is recommended that you follow this two step procedure.

#1: Lift the hex wand upwards just enough to disengage the start shaft from the fan while keeping the wand inserted in the hex coupler (CN0402)

#2: After the coupler has stopped turning, then remove the wand completely.

Ref.:
http://www.centuryheli.com/support/...teps2-1_2-2.pdf

Once you get use to it, it will be easy.


3D2me= One eye on the Tx, one on the Heli and my thumbs in between.

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12-08-2005 09:00 PM  12 years agoPost 15
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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""#2: After the coupler has stopped turning, then remove the wand completely.""

yes, this is a must,,, and a wand with a oneway bearing helps,,,

"" the starter shaft will not spring back up after being pushed down??""

some times slightly adjusting the alignment of the bearings helps, loosen the 4 bearing block side screws and adjust the bearing blocks forward or back, keep in mind they only move a tiny bit...

Jim

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12-08-2005 09:13 PM  12 years agoPost 16
Lear31A

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Hattiesburg, Ms

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Thanks for the repies. I have not installed the engine yet. I only tried pushing it up and down to see the smoothness. I am going to remove it and clean the shaft in case some loctite has gotten on it. That is possible and would cause a less than smooth movement. We will see. Thanks again. Also, Tower sells a replacement for it, however, I am not sure if it is any better.

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12-09-2005 04:36 PM  12 years agoPost 17
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

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I would suggest that after you install the engine that you loose off the for screws that attach the start shaft bearing supports to the frames and adjust them for a smooth motion. Then tighten the screws insuring that the supports stay in situe.

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12-09-2005 05:49 PM  12 years agoPost 18
Lear31A

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Hattiesburg, Ms

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I took it apart last night and put it back together testing it after tightening each screw and it worked! So, hopefully that took care of that. I am now assembling the fuselage and painting. I took the tail boom and supports out of the oven after 1 hour and the paint is hard as a rock! Just the way I like it. Thanks

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