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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › HELP, R50 two piece pinion?
11-12-2005 05:38 PM  14 years ago
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Santiago P

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Dayton

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HELP, R50 two piece pinion?
Can anyone tell me if the raptor 50 pinion is two pieces pressed in or just one piece?
Just did a tear down and I am holding too may parts in my hand.

thanks
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11-12-2005 06:10 PM  14 years ago
deafheliflyer

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Arizona

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hi
Two piece.. The pinion connects to the bell (which has the liner inside).. Some people locktite this pinion but the instructions say not to because you will have to take it off at some point.

Actually three pieces.. black pinion, silver bell and bearing inside the bell.

Hope that helps
Michael
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11-12-2005 09:59 PM  14 years ago
Sipper

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Poole, Dorset, UK

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I know what you are saying, I did a recent dtrip down and found my pinion to be the two part variety. I don't know what caused it but sure gave my clutch bell a little more play than expected.

Sipper
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be. Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
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11-13-2005 01:09 AM  14 years ago
Santiago P

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Dayton

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Sipper

You understand what I am asking since the same thing happened to you.
The top part or the pinion (above the gear) slid up,aka separated from the gear leaving the clutch bell assembly wobbling on the top side (not supported by the middle bearing).
The wobble eventually cause my clutch bell to fracture above the neck leaving the clutch+bell disconnected from the pinion... in mid flight.

I was doing fwd flips at the time and heard a slight different note from the drivetrain so the moment I stopped flipping and came close to landing the clutch bell let go, the gov. caught the runaway engine and I auto in a jiffy. Quite lucky.

I do not know what cause the pinion to separate in half, but it sure is a pain in the azz and it took a toll on the rest of the drivetrain. Again I was lucky not to crash from it.

I tried to press the the top part back into the pinion with no avail. The POS bucled as the liner was too thing to press back in.

I hope the next pinion I get is a one piece and not a pressed 2 piece crap.
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11-13-2005 01:18 AM  14 years ago
Tron

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Morgan Hill, CA

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Not understanding why it is being referred to as two pieces. The raptor 50 v2 pinion gear is 10 tooth and is one piece (if I were to describe it). one side threads into the clutch bell (no locktight necessary), and the other side presses into the bearing. Sometimes the press fit is a little loose so it is recommended to locktight the pinion to the inner race of the bearing so that it won't chatter and eventually wear out.
Again, pinion gear is once piece. If you got two pieces, then I think you need a new pinion gear.
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11-13-2005 01:52 AM  14 years ago
Santiago P

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Dayton

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Not mine, and that is why I am pi$$ed off. The top side on my pinion, which inserts into the bottom bearing block that support the start shaft, did not break, but slid up, as it was pressed into the pinion itself.

Correction: Not sure how but somehow the top side on the pinion, the neck down, rubbed off or worn out against something (unknown to me) and cut the top side of the pinion. The way it rubbed, it looks like a step down on the neck. It look to me like a top neck was inserted in the pinion. The diameters don't measure up for a press fit, so the top part had to rubbed and then break off the pinion. Anyway the end result is the same, broken gear, broken clutch bell, one lucky Raptor that is still in one piece.
So I stand corrected, the pinion IS a solid piece. I just freakishly made two out of mine.
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11-13-2005 06:45 PM  14 years ago
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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There seems to be some confusion about the naming of the parts

pinion: This is ONE piece- at least if it is not broken. It is a black, soft metal thing, a tube with a 9- or 10- teeth gear in the middle and screw thread at the bottom. The top of the tube, the "neck" slides into another piece: the

pinion bearing.

If it is all right the pinion fits very tight into the bearing.

If it does not fit tight, the pinion neck will quickly wear out against the pinion bearing which is of much harder steel. This will cause the 'step' mentioned by MoneyPit. If you don't notice this and keep flying, the pinion will crack at the lower point of its neck. If it does not fit tight right from the start, my experience is that EVEN LOCTITE WON'T HOLD IT.
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11-13-2005 07:32 PM  14 years ago
Heli88

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Clarkston, MI

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You need to lock-tite the pinion into the lower start shaft bearing to prevent that from happening.
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11-13-2005 08:21 PM  14 years ago
Santiago P

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Dayton

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I am straight with the ONE piece when it comes to the pinion. The pinion never came loose from the clutch bell. The top neck above the pinion that inserts into the bearing above the clutch bell sheared off, due to:
1. vibration
2. misalignment
3. the engine or something else coming loose.
4. large impact from 2 crashes last year
5. who knows

Right now, I am just goin through every area to make sure that I (thats in yours truly) pay better attention to the this area that I did in the past.
For the most part, I've been very attentive to my little Rappy 50, and very content with it. The clutch bell getting cut in 2 was the accumulation of time being run unsupported from the top. Is was my unfamiliarity (or forgetfulness) with the pinion shape that bit me in the long run.

The best news is, the lesson did not cost me a heli, but a just a few parts: pinion, clutch bell, maybe the start shaft; and it only gets better from now on.
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11-13-2005 08:24 PM  14 years ago
littleman

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Pasadena, Ca

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could you post some pics of it on monday? I am a little confused about what you mean still.
thanks,
A.J.
Proud member of Teams MSH USA, Futaba, Scorpion, & Nick Maxwell Products
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11-13-2005 08:35 PM  14 years ago
Santiago P

rrProfessor

Dayton

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could you post some pics of it on monday? I am a little confused about what you mean still.
By all means. I have already taken some pics and have them posted tomorow. This is one of those cases where a picture is worth 1000 words.

In reply to w.pasman and Heli88,

Thanks for the advice guys, I will pay better attention to the neck fit on rebuilt.

Santiago
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11-13-2005 08:38 PM  14 years ago
Sipper

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Poole, Dorset, UK

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Guys

We are all talking about the same part here. The reason it looks like a 2 piece is it appears to be an impossible component to just break. Mine was due to wearing within the bearing and eventually shearing off just below the bearing leaving the clutch bell with half a pinion and the start shaft supporting it.

When I replaced the pinion I made sure I lockitied the pinion into the bearing to make sure it doesn't happen again. If I can I'll post some pictures tomorrow as no-one around here has ever heard of the pinion giving up either, but with two cases it obviously does.

Sipper
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be. Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
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11-13-2005 08:50 PM  14 years ago
Santiago P

rrProfessor

Dayton

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Sipper,
Same thing here. Loctite on the neck is what the Dr. ordered for this one.


Ay chihuahua, is that a hemi on your scooter!
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11-13-2005 08:52 PM  14 years ago
spifff

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Stockholm-Sweden

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Same thing happened to me yesterday!

I guess it was the problem described above about the pinion wearing out against the bearing.

Read in another thread about it and a early warning signal is black metal dust on the main gear.
I had it for a couple of month before mine broke.
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11-13-2005 09:10 PM  14 years ago
Sipper

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Poole, Dorset, UK

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I also noticed the black dust but thought it was from the clutch lining.

Sipper
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be. Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
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11-13-2005 11:04 PM  14 years ago
Heli88

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Clarkston, MI

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I learned about it by having 1mm of metal removed around the pinion where it goes into the bearing.
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11-14-2005 10:15 AM  14 years ago
Sipper

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Poole, Dorset, UK

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Hi Guys

I have downloaded a picture of the 'two piece' pinion into my gallery.

Sipper
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be. Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
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11-14-2005 02:24 PM  14 years ago
Santiago P

rrProfessor

Dayton

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The broken piece is no longer round because I try to pressed into the ID of the pinion, that was wrong. You can still see where the bearing wore off a step where it eventually broke.
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11-14-2005 03:08 PM  14 years ago
rob10000

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Western Massachusettes

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Wow.
I would imagne that would make some noise to indicate what was happening, wouldn't it?
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11-14-2005 03:42 PM  14 years ago
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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A picture is worth a thousand words.

Are you sure this thing is not three (3) pieces pressed together ? This is a really cheap pinion of extremely low quality. I understand the above scepticism about two pieces. I have never seen a pinion like this one in twenty years of heli flying. Is this the official pinion or an aftermarket job?

The pinion should be hardened and not wear a step where it goes into the bearing. It might polish itself a little - unless the bearing is siezed.

Can you post a picture from the threaded side?
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