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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Changing from Ni-Cad to Duralite Li-Poly - What to get?
11-07-2005 04:16 PM  14 years ago
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nocontrol

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Cape Town, South Africa

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Changing from Ni-Cad to Duralite Li-Poly - What to get?
I would like to move away from NiCad to Duralite Li-Poly packs. I understand Alan Szabo uses a 5000ma Li-Poly Duralite setup with 5.1V regulator. Here you will have to advice me what I need, my knowledge on the subject is next to nothing:
1. Switched or non-switched regulator? What does this means? If I get the switched one - do I still use a normal switch or is this then the switch?
2. 5.1V or 5.3V? Why 5.3 if Alan is happy with 5.1V??
3. Load tester - I take it this is what you use to check if battery is still OK before you go fly - how does it work??
4. Charging these packs - It seems that the Duralite chargers only shows per light indicator when the pack is charged - this I do not like, I would like to see how much I charged it. Between me and my friends we have the following chargers: Which one of the Kokam JJ Power, Robbe power peak infinity2 or Schultze chameleon ISL6/636+ charger will work for charging this pack? I know Duralite would like to sell the duralite one but it seems like a huge waist to have 3 chargers and go and buy another one
5. In the event that none of these chargers is OK - I have an AC adaptor that I use on previously mentioned chargers - will it be OK on Duralite charger?

If I missed anything please advice me
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11-07-2005 04:52 PM  14 years ago
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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Get the switched regulator. The current doesn't flow through the switch. When the switch is off it keeps the regulator powered off, if the switch fails then you won't be able to turn off the reciever by the switch. This is a good thing, if a regular switch harness fails it cuts power to the reciever. With a switched regulator there is no need or function for a standard switch harness.

5.1 volts is plenty and the nice part is its consistent from start of day till the end. 8 flights a weekend isnt unusual for me with my full digital raptor 50 before getting anywhere near stop fly voltage.

The battery checker is equipped with 2 buttons, 1/2 amp and 1 amp. Connect the checker, push the 1amp button and anything 6.9 volts with 1amp load and below, time to take it home and charge. If you press both buttons you get a 1.5 amp load. Its important only to hold the button long enough to get a reading.

As for the charger, connect it, wait till the light goes off and go fly. Its also the only way they warranty the battery. With load testing prior to each flight, how much the pack takes is irrelevent. If you start getting less flights per charge its time to send the battery off to get checked or replaced.

If you call Duralite they will answer any questions you have. Nathan at Ricks advised me to go ahead and get the whole set and besides carbon blades it my be the best money i spent on my Raptor
Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
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11-07-2005 05:19 PM  14 years ago
spritefiend

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Camarillo, CA

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I believe their highest capacity battery is 4200mah li-po, and a 4000mah li-ion.

as far as the regulators, i use the 5.3v HD Switched reg on a full digital setup, 3x 9252, 1x 9254, gv1, 601 w/ 9256.

the most ive flown on any one charge has been 12 flights, and that was because the day ran out before my battery did.

if you plan on sticking with duralite, and want to invest in a good system i would suggest their better chargers. If your able to get a tx battery for your radio, not necessairly right away, i just got one for my Stylus, after 6 months of originally having a duralite setup, which they dont stock the case for so i had to send it in for a custom job. then i suggest their 3+1 charger, 3x rx outputs, 1x tx output. It only comes with the gator clips for DC useage, idea is to not have to charge at the field, so for said charger you need the 1700mah, 18v for 4 output charger.

their battery tester is great, as mentioned up to a 1.5a load, i have one and suggest it as well. you may even consider the battery tester and glow ignitor 2in1, i cant EVEN imagine how long that thing would last, and after a while kinda wished i had gotten it myself.

for a full set up its a hefty penny, but its WELL worth it. do a search on duralite and warranty, and you will find nothing but good things about them. i have a post to make about this first hand.
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11-07-2005 05:40 PM  14 years ago
Al Magaloff

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I agree with you Sprite. I just received my TX battery also, and I'm glad now I bought the 3 in 1 charger. Nocon, the thing with the dedicated charger is, you plug it in, it shuts off, end of story. Who really cares what it puts back in. Duralite performance is measured in the number of flights you can get out of the battery, before the NoFly.
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11-07-2005 05:42 PM  14 years ago
Wenlock

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Shropshire, England

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I would like to move away from NiCad to Duralite Li-Poly packs.
Why?

No, seriously, what's the advantage of changing to Li-Poly's?
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11-07-2005 05:44 PM  14 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Get the Duralite charger, as Al suggsted. It's a brain dead thing to use. You never have to program it or worry that it'll cook something. More importantly, the charge safe circuitry that Duralite uses doesn't play well with some other charger. And..........Duralite's excellent warranty is voided if you mess up a pack with another kind of charger.

Ben Minor
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11-07-2005 05:53 PM  14 years ago
bobj

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United Kingdom

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Hi Wenlock

It does seem on the face of it a lot of dosh to switch over to Duralites and for not a lot of obvious advantages but there is a big difference for 3D flying and even for sports flying.
The most noticable is you are not having to constantly wait for packs to charge as one charge will do most for 1 to 2 flying sessions.
Secondly as the pack runs through a regulator you get a constant voltage to the servo's, a 4.8v Nicad pack will probably drop to 4v under load, the Duralites won't do this and you are already running a higher voltage (5.1 to 6v, with 5.3v been the best for most) so you servo's are quicker and have more power.
The only down side it once you have used it in one model you will want this set up in all your models:-)

Cheers
Bob J
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11-07-2005 05:53 PM  14 years ago
spritefiend

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Camarillo, CA

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No, seriously, what's the advantage of changing to Li-Poly's?
with my 4000mah nimh batteries from radical rc, on that same full digital setup i mentioned in my first post. i can only get about 3 flights in, max. on a second setup i have, 3x 9402, 1x 9202, 502 w/9253, gv1, i can only get 4 flights off of the 4000mah pack.

i dunno about you, but i dont want to spend ANY PART of my day while im out flying, charging charging charging. i even got 2 of those packs so while one was up i was charging the other, STILL had a half hour overlap if i didnt space my flights out. this pissed me off to NO END.

so i dropped the cash on the duralite system, and i dont regret ONE PENNY of it.
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11-07-2005 06:01 PM  14 years ago
Wenlock

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Shropshire, England

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Bob J & Spritefiend
Thanks for the answers guys. More stick time - gotta be a good thing, no further justification needed!
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11-07-2005 06:07 PM  14 years ago
spritefiend

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Camarillo, CA

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Wenlock: heaps and heaps.
The only down side it once you have used it in one model you will want this set up in all your models:-)
hehe ive been fighting this on on two of my ships, a std. sceadu 50, freya 60, plastic fantastic, minimal mods, "beater machine", "trainer", whatever you want to call it.

the ones im not going to be afraid to try new stuff with, and if it goes lawn dart on me, i dont want to lose my precious packs!!
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11-08-2005 09:23 AM  14 years ago
nocontrol

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Cape Town, South Africa

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Thanks for reply. I see it says "Designed to safely charge up to 3 - 7.4 volt DURALITE PLUSTM Li-ion Batteries AND 1 - 11.1 volt DURALITE PLUSTM Li-ion Battery." for the charger but I will be getting Li-Poly and not Li-ion. Will it be OK? If so this seems to be what I must get, am I correct?

1. x #21711ST - Charger (3@7.4 volt RX output - 1@ 11.1 volt TX output w/DC cable) PRICE: US$ 105.95

1 x #65051 - 5.1 volt Regulator with Fail Safe Switch, 7.5 amp PRICE: US$ 47.95

1 x #43051 - Load Tester - Digital .5, 1 & 1.5 amp load PRICE: US$ 52.95

1 x 7504 - 5000 mah - 4 cell - 7.4 volt LI-POLY pack - Redundant PRICE: US$ 151.95

Then I am not sure if it is necesarry to get the #21915 - A/C Adapter PRICE: US$ 19.95. How will I know if the A/C adaptor that I have will be OK. It schould be OK according to me - I clamp both my Kokam and Supernova chargers to it and charges 2 x Ni-cad packs at the same time and it works fine. How do I decide on this item??
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11-08-2005 09:35 AM  14 years ago
spritefiend

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Camarillo, CA

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nocontrol
thats the best bet for the charger. they dont list a seperate charger for the li-poly's either so it should be the same for both. as for the ac adaptor you could give duralite a call and ask them if it will work, i dont see why it wouldnt but i would find out for sure before you get stuck having to wait to order something you should have known to order in the first place

finally found the 5000mah battery thanks to the part number you gave, it shows it in the online shop, but not under the section for li-poly packs on the main page. thats one thing i dislike about their pages, they dont always match. but thats another story.

the rest looks good, what helicopter will you be using this setup on?
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11-08-2005 10:25 AM  14 years ago
nocontrol

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Cape Town, South Africa

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spritefiend - I will find out what my AC adaptor's output is and what ever other info I can get and forward it to them asking if it will be OK. I thought of one more thing: The charger will charge 3 x RX and 1 x TX battery, at the same time, correct? This will mean the AC adaptor must be able to handle all 4 batteries, What can the highest amps be it will require to charge all 4 at the same time (taking the specific battery into account)?

It wil go into a Vibe......... Yes Yes Yes - delivery..... but I am fairly positif I will have the kit before end of 2005. If I tell you why I say so I will have to kill you I am actually selling everything I have and buying everything new. hope this link will work http://www.runryder.com/t212699p1/

Edit: I knew the pack was available but could also not find it - it took a while before I found it
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11-08-2005 11:26 AM  14 years ago
nocontrol

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Cape Town, South Africa

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"With load testing prior to each flight, how much the pack takes is irrelevent."

Please explain this to me better. I fly with my Ni-cad pack and recharge for text day. I then know by how much it took how far the pack was from "empty / flat". now and then I discharge / charge and if it takes less than the packs rating I know the pack is on its way out. How will I have this info if I do not know how mutch it took.

Also: on the load tester, If I tested the pack and it is OK how do I now it is going to be OK after 6min or 8min? I do flights of up to 12 - 13min on my CS. With the regulator setup, is it not possible that the load tester can show the pack is OK but 5min into a flight it is flat?
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11-08-2005 11:48 AM  14 years ago
spritefiend

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Camarillo, CA

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i only 2 duralite batteries total, 4000mah rx li-ions, i have charged them both at the same time, and when i get my tx battery i will try 3 at a time. take into consideration they sell it as a 4 port automatic charger, and with the higher output ac adapter than what you need over a single port charger.
now and then I discharge / charge and if it takes less than the packs rating I know the pack is on its way out.
this will no longer be necessary, the circuitry auto balances the battery, also lithium batteries have no memory effect, so what comes out, goes back in. as long as you dont overheat them, or over discharge them*, they will last a long time.

as far as how long the packs will be good for on your particular helicopter, thats something you will have to pay attention to on drainage etc. the cutoff for the pack is 6.90v on a 1a load. i cut mine off at 6.95 on a 1.5a for a nice reserve/buffer. take note of your voltage** before your first flight(cant hurt to write it down), and then after each flight using the same load and see how much it goes down per flight.


*i also use the 5.5v cutoff, in the event you forget to turn it off, it will switch the battery off to prevent you from damaging the battery.

**when you load test them, you dont test through the switch like you may normally, there is a 2nd lead that comes off the battery you test from. the lead coming off of the switch can be used for charging. though ive never had any problems, or ever heard of any duralites going hari kari off the charger, i only charge them outside of the helicopter.
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11-08-2005 11:49 AM  14 years ago
bobj

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United Kingdom

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Hi

the load tester/checker has a digital display so you read off the voltage, the stop fly voltage is 6.9v but this is not the voltage where the pack will fall over but just to the safe cut off so as not to damage the pack by taking it to low.
Full charge voltage is just under 8v so anything in between is fine, probably make your last flight at no lower than 7.1v depending on the current draw of your set up.

Cheers
Bob J
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11-08-2005 01:45 PM  14 years ago
Wenlock

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Shropshire, England

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Would a "Watts Up" be a good thing to install into the heli with a Duralite set-up?
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11-08-2005 01:48 PM  14 years ago
nocontrol

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Cape Town, South Africa

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I think I have it now - I will work out what is the max. Volts (not milli amps) I use per flight and add that to the minimum Volts you whant the pack to go down to. Lets say I use max. 0.7V per flight (no idea what this will be - 0.1V to 2V ????) and you do not want the pack to go below 6.5V. (6.5 + 0.7 = 7.2) Then if the tester show 7.2V I can still fly but anything below I must first charge. BUT the 7.2V is tested with 0.5 or 1 or 1.5amps on the tester??
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11-08-2005 02:02 PM  14 years ago
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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Discharging the battery below 5.5 volts is what hurts it. 6.9 is a rather high safety margin. Anything over 6.9 you can safely get another flight in unless your carrying saddle tanks or something.

A 1 amp load will pull a 4000 mah pack down about 1/2 a volt. So even at 6.9 with a 1 amp load the battery is going to be 6.4 or 1 full volt over its damage point. The thing about lithiums is the farther you pull them down per charge the less total cycles they last. So 6.9 isn't only a flight safety margin but its to ensure longevity of the batteries.

You really don't need to make it any more complicated, if its above 6.9 go fly. When you get home plug it in till the green light goes out. If you notice stop fly is coming at 5 flights instead of 8 its time to get the pack looked at.
Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
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11-08-2005 03:17 PM  14 years ago
nocontrol

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Cape Town, South Africa

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Any thing above 6.9 go fly, 6.9 and below go charge. This sounds the way to go. Sorry for the dumb question but the 6.9 is with the loader just pluged in or with 0.5 or 1 or 1.5amp load?

Last question: Low Voltage Cut Off at 5.5amp is it a good thing or not - please give reasons. I would rather let the pack get damaged than it cut off in the air. The damage to the heli in a crash will cost more than the battery in my opinion.
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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Changing from Ni-Cad to Duralite Li-Poly - What to get?
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