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10-17-2005 01:02 AM  12 years agoPost 1
turbojoe

rrApprentice

Mesa, Arizona

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Your testicles that is. I can't bring myself to make any circuits. Hovering is a non issue. I can take off and land smoothly exactly where I want every time. Forward and reverse flight is no problem. I'm only about 15 flights in as a newbie. I think I'm doing pretty well so far but the circuits are now the stumbling block for me. The heli is doing fine. It's all me. I do take it up 60-80 feet on occasion but I'm trying to do most flying at just above eye level though . Should I be higher to have better orientation or is lower better? Once I get my first few circuits in I'll be okay. It's just getting the first ones out of the way is the problem. Am I the only one to puss out like this? I've only had one stupidity crash and I don't want another.

I just installed Curtek nav lights with a flashing green on the tail. Flashing red in the middle and flashing white at the front. Hopefully this will further help orientation.

Now I'm wishing I hadn't gotten rid of Real Flight G2 several months ago. It would come in handy now.


Joe

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10-17-2005 01:09 AM  12 years agoPost 2
Kermitdafrog

rrApprentice

Charleston, SC

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Turbo,

I just this weekend reached the same point that you are. My chalk landing square in my driveway is now down to 18 inches from 48 inches. I did about 7 or 8 packs today with no gronks, but can't bring myself to try side-on yet.

Good luck.

Rick

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10-17-2005 01:26 AM  12 years agoPost 3
Stack

rrVeteran

Bethlehem, PA

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Can you hover a full pack sideways? That helped me when I was stuck ... Did it til it became second nature. Increment in 10 or 15 degree progression.

I found that hovering sideways to the right was easier so I started there. Hove it sideways until you can do a full pack, left and right.

Then move to 45 degrees ... same story.

Once I was comfy with this , nose-in started to become less frightening!

Eventually it will click. It seems like it won't, but it will.

Altitude is another story. Stick with what you are comfy with for now.. then kick it up another 10 feet. Altitude is good as it allows you to recover but all the altitude in the world wont help if you have no idea HOW to recover.

Lastly ... and the hardest part: you have to lose the fear of crashing. It's gonna happen.. even when you are much much better at this. Once I stopped worrying about crashing, the thought of spending more money, and the thought of being out of commission for a couple of days things really changed for me.

Good luck and keep at it. The day it all changes is an awesome one!

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10-17-2005 03:34 AM  12 years agoPost 4
turbojoe

rrApprentice

Mesa, Arizona

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I can do side in but I've only done it down a foot or so off the ground from about 20 feet out and orientation becomes a problem. I can't really tell if it's moving or not until it gets kind of out of shape. I'm comfortable flying at just about any altitude but what would actually be considered best? I only fly 2-3 packs on the weekends right now but need to try to get out during the week and work on this.


Joe

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10-17-2005 04:54 AM  12 years agoPost 5
Gary Hoorn

rrKey Veteran

Annapolis Maryland USA

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Joe,
When you start practicing side-on hovering stay about 5 or 6 feet above the ground. It is easier to maintain orientation. Don't concentrate solely on the nose or tail of the heli but shift your view to the skids and the rotors as well. If this is difficult in the beginning start practicing it while hovering out in front of you. Watching the skids and rotors will let you know much quicker if the heli is tilting one way or the other and you can correct before it begins to wander off on its own. Once comfortable with that you should begin flying circuits by practicing slow easy figure eights out in front of you. Not only will this teach you speed control but it will begin to train you for nose in hovering later on as you will be approaching yourself as you make the turns to complete the figure 8. If you get confused simply turn your body to line up with the heli. Once you regain control go back to practicing. You will be surprised how much quicker you will learn if you have a plan and practice. I am a licensed flight instructor so have a bit of experience along these lines
Gary

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10-17-2005 10:05 AM  12 years agoPost 6
Professor Fate

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Goose Creek S.C.

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When your skills start to advance it's a rush.

Welcome my son, Welcome to the machine

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10-17-2005 11:26 AM  12 years agoPost 7
TRex888

rrVeteran

Monmouth, UK

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Just for the records folks, I could hover side in (full packs) and fly FFF up to about 30 feet in the air before I had my TRex (started out on a HB FP2). I'm currently on flight 87 with my TRex and only just starting to do sloppy nose in hovers for 2-3 secs. I think by flight 200 I may have cracked it.

The motto is practice until your bored. See Radd's guide here http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-past-hover.html

I've been taking things very slowly and have not had a crash in the past 75 flights (touch wood). Flying at eye level and below really helps with control as chances of crashing at low levels is high so your concentration is high also.

Damn nose in hover

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10-17-2005 12:39 PM  12 years agoPost 8
Heli88

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Clarkston, MI

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Like the Nike commercial says..."Just Do It"

Sounds like you'll be fine.

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10-17-2005 03:22 PM  12 years agoPost 9
Paul_C

rrVeteran

Limpopo, South Africa

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Just do it, that’s what I did when I got to that point, pointed the nose forward and said to myself “I’m going to either fly a circuit or crash it, but hover no more!”, after it got some speed I did a turn and brought it back for a landing, which was challenging as I had very little neg pitch and had no idle-up, and then I had to rest a while so may hands could stop shaking.

If you’re going to do it and you have a heading hold gyro, I think it might be best to switch the gyro to rate mode for the first circuit… I have seen people forgetting to control the tail on their first circuit and heading hold just gets them heading towards the ground tail-first. If you have some speed and your gyro is in rate mode, the weathervane effect keeps the tail pointing more-or-less backwards and is a little more forgiving. Also ensure you have a least 3 degrees of negative pitch so you can bring it back down!

If you can fly fixed-wing you shouldn’t find circuits with a heli too difficult, then you definitely just do it!

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10-17-2005 03:24 PM  12 years agoPost 10
Pure Platinum03

rrNovice

Orlando, FL

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Im now learning circuits too.......granted my circuits are sloppy as hell.
Im just glad not to crash. The hardest part for me is controlling altitude....it either goes too high or too low. Just wish i could stay level like how the other guys do it. I think they control their altitude by banking steeper so the heli will fall a little bit?

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10-17-2005 03:35 PM  12 years agoPost 11
Gary Hoorn

rrKey Veteran

Annapolis Maryland USA

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Also ensure you have a least 3 degrees of negative pitch so you can bring it back down!
A breath of fresh air just blew in the Forum Thank you Paul I have been telling people this for as long as I can remember. When you fly around the field and build up a head of speed you need negative pitch to get the thing back down, especially if it is windy. Another thing I advocate is zero degrees of pitch at mid collective. You can always limit the amount of negative pitch in Normal with the Tx. Setting up this way will postion you for using the Idle Up postions without having the Heli hop up or worse yet down when you switch modes. Having no negative pitch and zero as the throttle starting position in Normal Mode is a receipe for disaster if flying on a windy day!
Gary

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10-17-2005 03:46 PM  12 years agoPost 12
WRXRonald

rrKey Veteran

Auburn, OH

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Trex888
to quote: "Just for the records folks, I could hover side in (full packs) and fly FFF up to about 30 feet in the air before I had my TRex (started out on a HB FP2). I'm currently on flight 87 with my TRex and only just starting to do sloppy nose in hovers for 2-3 secs. I think by flight 200 I may have cracked it.

The motto is practice until your bored. See Radd's guide here http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-past-hover.html

I've been taking things very slowly and have not had a crash in the past 75 flights"


now i will not claim i'm any Gods' gift to the hobby..... matter of fact i consider myself to be not that great, and fairly average or slow in learning to fly R/C helis...

but 87 flights in and you can only nose-in for 2-3 seconds???

dude you gotta start to take some risks.... i post most of your quote because i believe one part of you commentary is directly related to the other.... you've flown 87 full flights, at about 8 minutes per flight that would be around 11.6hours of nothing but flying a heli.... and you've not crashed in over 75 flights, that's about 10hrs no crahses...............

i think this thread post was directed right at you....... you need to get bigger balls dude!

na, just kidding... of course you decide how much RISK while flying is acceptable for YOU.... but it seems to me you're taking just a bit too slow, for my taste anyways.

i can say in the last 12 months i've probably not come even close to that amount of 'actual' fly time with my trex.... but GOSH know i've crahsed ALOT, and rebuilt ALOT. but i can quite easily hover in all orientations, fly loops, rolls, ciruits of figure eights, (funnels if the darn tail would hole better) backwards flying, etc etc. again i'm not bragging... like i said i feel like i'm pretty much a VERY average flyer and of very average learning skill/aptitude when it comes to the eye-to-hand-to-brain coordination needed for flying helis. just that baby-stepping all day long will get you really nowhere fast.

you need to try new stuff, take risk, etc... to move on. figure it this way, you developed the gonads to lift this this off the ground in the first place......... now once you've got some hovering down, try actually flying it a bit.


just my .02 >>> again not trying to citicize anyones learings tactics, naturally they are different for everyone and the amt of RISK one is comforatable with may be different from anothers........ but if you don't try new stuff, (at the risk and probablility of a crash), you'll never learn it.


if you can't bear to risk the frequent crash, yes the G2/G3/Reflex sims are awesome tools for teaching your brain the stick inputs required to do certain manuevers.

Good Day: crashed thx to dumb thumbs. Bad Day: crashed mechanical malfunction. Every Day: CRASH :)

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10-17-2005 04:18 PM  12 years agoPost 13
biggster

rrApprentice

Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, USA

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theres only one way to gaurantee your not gonna crash.....DON"T FLY

Biggster

Fly the blades off it !!

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10-17-2005 04:19 PM  12 years agoPost 14
TRex888

rrVeteran

Monmouth, UK

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I did forget to mention I've been flying my TRex only for 5 weeks. I guess my brain needs time to take stock.

I also thought about this to myself:- it took me 20 hours of lessons to take my driving test so taking 20 hours to crack nose in (if I do it at all) is OK with me. Flying helis is much more difficult than driving a car. Before I started on this journey I set myself a goal being able to reach a point of thinking about doing a loop in 1 year. I've been flying for 3.5 months and am probably 75% there. So I guess I'm happy. Was never good at video games as a kid anyway.

I really like Radd's advice, do it until you're bored to tears then you don't think, it becomes instinct. And I'm no way near bored with what I'm doing at the moment. Every time I fly I smile.

Also, I can't afford to crash. I read a post where someone else had the same problem. There are other things in life that I have to pay for school fees, insurance, taxes, mortage, bills, bills, and more bills.

Damn nose in hover

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10-17-2005 04:46 PM  12 years agoPost 15
WRXRonald

rrKey Veteran

Auburn, OH

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i hear ya...
yes can't afford to crash can be a big part of the picture.

i've spent a small fortune in the last 12 months on heli parts.


been actually thinking about taming down my flying habits in the name of less parts purchase/rebuild and more just plain 'flyin'..... as i'm most certainly not bored of standard 'safe' flying, as opposed to more of the funky stuff flips, loops, inverted this and that........................

so good point anyway about the money

Good Day: crashed thx to dumb thumbs. Bad Day: crashed mechanical malfunction. Every Day: CRASH :)

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10-18-2005 12:42 AM  12 years agoPost 16
turbojoe

rrApprentice

Mesa, Arizona

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I'm not going to say I can afford to crash. It's just that I'd rather not if at all possible. I'll start working more on side in and nose in hover next. Once I get them down then maybe move on to circuits.
There's an element of risk involved every time we fly. Crashes are inevitable. I've lost a few planes over the years so I know what it's like. I still don't like to get in way over my head if it's not necessary. There's nothing worse than the walk of shame that could have been avoided by listening to someone more knowledgeable than you. That's why I appreciate the replies here.


Joe

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10-18-2005 12:54 AM  12 years agoPost 17
jfint

rrApprentice

Simi Valley, CA

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What helped me start with circuits, i think because I had been flying planes, was to get it flying forward across in front of me, turn it around and fly back the other way. In foward flight it was just like a plane, well kinda. Anyhow when I turned I never saw the nose of the heli, then one day I just started turning the other way, which quickly turned into nice circle, a climb to way up high and a sloppy spiral dive. Same day i did my first sustained nose in hover. A loop is next, I swear its gonna happen, neep more power first though, that align motor just isn't cutting it. I think it comes in big steps, once you break the mental barrier you discover that you really can do it.

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10-18-2005 01:10 AM  12 years agoPost 18
AnnihilaT

rrKey Veteran

The Netherlands

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I think there are three main things that accelerate your learning curve.

1) proper setup for the type of flying you want to do / confidence in the machine

2) the proper reflexes

3) mental preparedness

You need to have confidence that all three of these things are in place and once you do your learning curve skyrockets.

For number 1 you need a pilot who is very proficient at the kind of flying you want to do. Have him take yer heli up and run it through the paces. Once you see it actually performing the maneuvers you wish to do with it, it will give you confidence in the machine

Number two you can get from many hours on the simulator.

For number 3 you just need to say "screw it - 1 and 2 are in place so im gonna do this thing. I know i can.". If you take away the mental factor, flying a real heli is almost no different than flying the simulator assuming you have tuned your simulator model to fly the same as your real model. In fact tune the sim model to fly a bit worse than your real model and when you do it for real it will seem easier and give you even more confidence.

After the first succesful attempt you will start improving exponentially.

The truth is balls have little to do with anything if you havent already learned how that machine is going to act in every situation and orientation. You can have all the balls in the world and if you dont know how to fly the maneuver you are just going to be an asshole with big balls flying his machine into the ground. If you can do it on the sim, your machine is setup correctly, and you dare to try it - chances are EXTREMELY good that you will be successful.

Buy another sim! It will save you money in the long run and i think it will increase the satisfaction you will get out of this hobby. For anyone not happy with their speed of progress the solution lies in one of these three things.


Cheers,
Anni

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10-18-2005 01:25 AM  12 years agoPost 19
Professor Fate

rrKey Veteran

Goose Creek S.C.

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Anni's correct! When first got started in RC helis back in the mid 80's I had the bird but no balls to push myself, so I just hovered around to the point I said screw it and sold it. Between my Trex, the EVO50 and the flight sim, and a very good friend, I'v done more flying and having fun at it, and still learning.

Welcome my son, Welcome to the machine

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10-18-2005 02:49 AM  12 years agoPost 20
AceHelis

rrVeteran

Georgetown, Texas

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Sim
A simulator is the best way. Once you can do whatever you want on the sim you will be able to do it for real. The adrenaline is a lot more and the price for crashing a lot more but the sim is a life/money saver.

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