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10-15-2005 07:46 PM  12 years agoPost 1
1275mini

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Wirral North West U.K.

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Any one know what the turbine exhaust temp is on a Wren say after 10 minutes of flying not 3D, just gentle flying around

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10-16-2005 09:17 AM  12 years agoPost 2
flymotioncam

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Port Macquarie AUS

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Your EGT usually gets cooler when flying (450 -490deg) On the ground @ 45000 rpm is usually when they at their hottest except on start-up of course. Turbines don't change temp much unless it has a bearing failure...

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10-16-2005 02:20 PM  12 years agoPost 3
optikaman

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EnglishTown N.J.

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You can easily over temp a turbine by pushing it to hard. Full pitch climbs will overload your head and will cause a drop in rpm's and cause the ecu to compensate with higher pump voltage to bring the rpm's up again. I have experienced over 800 Celsius and caused an over temp condition on a jet cat hp5.

with a wren you don't have a governor and I am not sure if you will experience the same condition.

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10-16-2005 06:07 PM  12 years agoPost 4
coolice

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Northamptonshire, England

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Hey,

Unfortunately thats the problem with direct drive turbine gearbox's and is where the two stage units are better.

As full pitch is given the gearbox loads up slowing it down, but the turbine itself can keep spooling at high revs and can pickup speed to compensate, supplying more power to the free air turbine.
Also as the turbine can spin freely there is not build up of excess heat as the turbine wheel slows down.
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

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10-17-2005 06:16 AM  12 years agoPost 5
flymotioncam

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Port Macquarie AUS

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I run a governer with my Wren turbine (GV1) and it holds the head speed perfect.You have to make a couple changes but it works fine.I am using 1200 - 1250 rpm

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10-17-2005 06:55 AM  12 years agoPost 6
bladebender

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England, Central

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govenor
What settings co oyu use on the fadec?

I am trying a rl10 govrnor but the engine just hunts and does not hold it constant.

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10-17-2005 10:09 AM  12 years agoPost 7
Bell Bloke

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UK

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Will run a test and let you know ASAP.

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10-17-2005 09:23 PM  12 years agoPost 8
bladebender

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England, Central

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Thanks

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10-18-2005 11:03 AM  12 years agoPost 9
Bell Bloke

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UK

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Slight problem, just noticed that Wren recommend that you don't fly your heli with the little black box plugged in as it can cause interference.
However I know somebody that knows this bloke down the pub whose brothers' girlfriends' best friend knows a guy called Ian, who has one of these things and that he runs it at 14000rpm and never seen more than 610degreesC. Now that's straight from the horses mouth.
Hope this helps, Bell Bloke.

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10-18-2005 01:02 PM  12 years agoPost 10
coolice

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Northamptonshire, England

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Hehehe, thats me

Will try and retrieve my latest flight data from the Fadec for you all to see the max. power in flight and at what temperature the turbine is.
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

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10-18-2005 02:47 PM  12 years agoPost 11
1275mini

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Wirral North West U.K.

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Good Lad

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10-18-2005 04:15 PM  12 years agoPost 12
NEIL2-UK

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UK - South East

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Exhaust Temp and Governor...
I have found with TT engine, and also when using Wren parts previously, that hottest temp is at around flight idle or at running speed... coolest is about 80k rpm. You should not see anymore than about 520C.

Flymotion cam... interesting that you are working with a GV1 on a FADEC as my experience is as with RL10 mentioned on this thread, and is shown on Wren site as a governor. Neither hold in reliably or for any length of time and the engine just hunts... after many hours of testing with various governors.

Just for reference the GV1 and Robbe governors work well with Orbit ECUs.

Regards
NEIL

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10-19-2005 12:37 AM  12 years agoPost 13
flymotioncam

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Port Macquarie AUS

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Hi Neil,

Myself and a friend of mine both run Rototech Mechanics and both use GVI Governers.We are using 2.1m rotor and the governer holds a perfect 1200rpm even under load. The pickup is on the power output shaft of the gearbox to the main gear.The trick is using multible magnets.Of course you can change your rotor RPM in flight.We have tried from 1150-1300 and it holds perfect all through the range.This was done using the standard Fadec supplied with Wren engines.

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10-19-2005 09:59 AM  12 years agoPost 14
NEIL2-UK

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UK - South East

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Multiple magnets work to a great degree
Hi Flymotioncam (No Name!)

Yes with multiple magnets you get a better resolution... and tried with 7 magnet setup which is used to control the rotorbrake also on a commercial heli with a large blade disc.

But if you are looking at extreme flying then you will find the 'drop-out' rate is very high and the turbine hunts if you look to a few hard loops and rolls... and from your suggested head speeds that is not your flying?

Wren have been telling people for 2 or 3 years that they are trying to develop a governor (they need one for the turbo-prop (was the reason given) as testified by Peter Wales on the subject of Governors on RR.

Another flyer who only had brief hovering experience advised Wren that the RL10 was working... but at the time that was for about 90 mins worth of hovering. The RL10 then appeared on the Wren site as a 'governor'. As I was dealing with Wren at the time I advised Sara that I'd already been down that route 2 months previous... and had continued development of my own governor which is now in use.

I would say do not rely on it too heavily if you start to get extreme!

NEIL
HeliLeisure TurbineTechnics

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10-19-2005 10:17 AM  12 years agoPost 15
flymotioncam

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Port Macquarie AUS

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Hi there,

Wow seven magnets,I'm only using two but I guess that depends on the speed of your output shaft. No 3D with these machines they are dedicated camera ship platforms which need a constant head speed.You would be doing well if you could swing 2.1m doing serious 3D.

Grant

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10-19-2005 03:01 PM  12 years agoPost 16
rudyr

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Gardena Ca USA

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I wonder if it is not a problem with mechanics and not so much electronics. When using electronic boost controllers on turbocharged engines,we had a similar problem with the boost hunting up and down. The electronics are instantaneous but their is a lag in the mechanical reaction to orders from the control unit. The same thing is true in our turbines, the governor may well tell the turbine to increase speed to compensate for a load, but it takes time for the turbine to respond. We solved the problem by giving the controller a rate of increase limitation,so if the rate of boost increase was too high the controller would start to open the waste gate to control the rate,this would effectivally control the boost pressure since changes would be much slower. In trying to control the turbine I believe that if you load the blades so hard that it pulls the turbine down even a instantaneous addition of fuel will will take time to bring the rotor back up to speed. I understand that a turbo is not a turbine, but the both have the same issue with a time lag to accellerate the rotating mass.

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10-20-2005 07:05 PM  12 years agoPost 17
NEIL2-UK

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UK - South East

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SARA is back...
Yes and the slick answers to the problems will now be coming across...!

Re the Dick Wallinger package and gearboxes, as put by Sara at Wren.
Dick was funding most of the packages including some engine development and producing anumber of turbine and ancilliary parts.

The work refered to with Dick Wallinger and Mike Murphy was actual work and developments carried out before Wren existed. The postion of information gained from various sources such as GTBA then led to the formation of Wren, and DW carried on with twin-stage systems and developments.

All of the various developments were purchased for Turbine Technics... and then a structured development continued up to the current production of turbine and twin-stage systems along with various airframes and conversions.

Worldwide Developments have continued such that in the turbine field there are many more options of the thrust engine available in the MW54 size and so the choice is much greater. Another manufacturer has also introduced their engine as a build kit, and is of superior quality to anything else in the kit engines that I have seen.

Thanks
NEIL

PS Wolfdad and George W have something very much in common!

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