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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Ever try flying without paddles?
10-13-2005 05:37 PM  12 years agoPost 1
apachedave

rrApprentice

Copperas Cove, TX

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Hey everyone,

Has anyone ever tried flying without paddles? I know the paddles help re-center the blades and provide roll andpitch inertia, but I'm curious if this has been attempted with the Bell-Hiller setup. Of course, without paddles, we kind of viloate Bell-Hiller theory.

ApacheDave

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10-13-2005 05:47 PM  12 years agoPost 2
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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i HAVE FLOWN WITH THE FLYBAR LOCK ON. Still does stunts,just a lot slower.

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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10-13-2005 06:12 PM  12 years agoPost 3
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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The original Bell 47, I believe it was, had a flybar with mixers but no paddles. It had weights on the ends of the flybar. Later on they (Bell) came out with a no-bar kit that eliminated the flybar and pilots had a hard time getting used to it because it was so fast.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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10-13-2005 06:19 PM  12 years agoPost 4
EMS1

rrNovice

Ft. Inn, SC - USA

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I believe I have seen some scale Hueys and Cobras without a flybar setup (or maybe just without paddles...like maybe a small weighted flybar or something similar). I could be mistaken though......


.

Hey! I can finally hover........crap!.......nevermind

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10-13-2005 06:53 PM  12 years agoPost 5
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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If you take away the flybar input from our models,you will have a lot slower cyclic response. Same as adding weight to the flybar or heavier paddles. The paddles are like power steering.

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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10-13-2005 07:49 PM  12 years agoPost 6
CK_

rrApprentice

Redondo Beach, CA

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If you did nothing more than remove the paddles it would probably be very difficult if not impossible to fly. Full size helis with stabilizer bars like the huey have hydraulic dampers (2 little round things on opposite sides of the shaft) on the teeter of the bar. These are basically the rotary equivalent of auto shock absorbers, applying a damping force proportional to velocity. The dampers are what make the stabilizer bar follow the mast. In theory, without those dampers the stabilizer bar would act just like a gyroscope and would always want to stay in its own plane. In reality things like teeter friction, unequal downwash, and unequal blade pitching moments would feed back into the bar moving it slightly.

Hiller and Bell-Hiller systems use paddles and do away with the mechanical dampers. The paddles provide the damping aerodynamically which causes the flybar to follow the mast. The flybar does not follow the mast from centrifugal force as many believe.

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10-13-2005 08:00 PM  12 years agoPost 7
Doug

rrElite Veteran

Port Saint Luice Florida....

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The first version of the Kavan Jet Ranger had a weighted flybar with no hiller input. It hovered ok and flew ok (what the heck did I know at the time) but in FFF it would "lock" into a turn and auger in. That's when Kavan introduiced the "Beller" mod that we all fly with today.

First member of Member of Bearings Anonymous

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10-14-2005 02:41 AM  12 years agoPost 8
helichulo

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Queens, New York

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I thought it was Schluter who introduced the "beller" on his Heli-Baby (AMA March 1978).

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10-14-2005 02:59 AM  12 years agoPost 9
Mr.Bowflex

rrApprentice

Toronto Canada

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I flew my century hawk 30 with NO flybar whatsoever. Just a link going from the swashplate to the blade grip. Thats it. (like on the bell 206 jetranger). I took all the mixing unit and everything that has to do with the flybar and inputs from the flybar off. Checked for binding and flew it. It flew like crap. Almost zero control. It is not left right forward backward, its like everything mixed together. Wobbling and uncontrollable. Interesting experiment though. Try it if you are bored one day.

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10-14-2005 05:59 AM  12 years agoPost 10
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Flybarless RC helis are not common, but have been around for many many years. They are not slow to react, and they can be a handful to fly.

There was a time in the development of what we fly today where the paddles were removed and replaced with CANS -- take a couple of tuna cans, remove the tops and bottoms, and bolt them to the flybar. The cans were oriented such that the missing top and bottom were vertical (as if the can were lying on its side on a table).

This experiment didn't last all that long in heli development.

The "Beller" system, a combination of the direct pitch control via the swashplate (Bell system) and the flybar and paddles (Hiller system) was patented by Dieter Schluter as suggested above, and is what led to the development of a stable, yet responsive RC heli. The origin of almost all of the mechanics we fly today can be directly traced back to Dieter's efforts in the early and middle 1970s.

Dave

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10-14-2005 06:08 AM  12 years agoPost 11
Mark C

rrKey Veteran

Houston, TX - USA

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Has anyone ever tried flying without paddles?
I have been up the creek without them many times.

Mark C.

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