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10-13-2005 09:32 AM  12 years agoPost 1
nheather

rrKey Veteran

Horsham, West Sussex, UK

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I see a lots of posts like "How do I make it more realistic', "How do I change paddle weight" etc.

Personally I think the current range of sims have got the focus wrong - don't get me wrong, I've had G2 and I have XTR and love them.

My two areas for improvement

ONE
====

The two most common statements I hear and read are

To a novice - "Buy a sim before getting a heli as it will allow you to decide whether it is for you and will save lots of money in the long run"

and

"You can't expect the heli to fly realistically out of the box, you have to play with the settings"

To me these statements are slightly contradictory. A novice has no idea what a heli flies like so how is he expected to configure the simulator to behave realistically.

Also why shouldn't we expect helis to fly realistically out of the box?

IMO, flight sim manufacturers should provide a small number of well researched, setup and realistic vanilla models that can be used out of the box. They should also provide facilities (see point Two) to allow the user community to build upon these to provide more exotic models and options.

TWO
====

Having supplied the vanilla models, they should also provide a facility to setup and upgrade the models as we do in real life. Setup items should be real world items

For example, try going into a model shop and asking for some new paddles - but you are not allowed to specify weight, shape or manufacturer, instead you have to specify Damping value in Newton Metre Seconds and Vividness as a value between 0 and 1. I don't think you would get very far.

Instead I would like to see a library of parts which I can add to the model. Sure that may just effect the damping and vividness but that should be invisible to the user. The library would could include all the things that we add/change in real life - servos, blades, engines, damping rubbers, paddles etc.

Sure this is an awful lot for the manufacturer, so I suggest that he provides a basic set of generic bulding blocks like (basic servo, coreless servo, digital servo etc) but let the user/industry community have a specification/tool to build the rest. The library would soon grow.

Not only would the simulator be a useful training aid, but it would become a really useful 'what if' aid. Am I ready for carbon blades, would they really make a difference - don't know, let's try it on the simulator.

It may sound like a lot of work but if the sim suppliers were to take an open approach and let the community do a lot of the work I don't think this would be a massive exercise. In return the usability and usefulness of the simulator would take a massive leap.

Cheers,

Nigel

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10-13-2005 11:12 AM  12 years agoPost 2
Lorents

rrElite Veteran

Oslo, Norway

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I totally agree



What comes around goes around.

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10-13-2005 12:06 PM  12 years agoPost 3
Jafa

rrElite Veteran

Sydney, Australia

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I totally disagree...
To a novice - "Buy a sim before getting a heli as it will allow you to decide whether it is for you and will save lots of money in the long run"
Yes - another important reason is to learn the orientations train some natural reactions.
"You can't expect the heli to fly realistically out of the box, you have to play with the settings"
This is an absurd statement imho - AeroFly, G2, G3 and XTR all have standard helicopters that fly perfectly adequately right out of the box.

Getting the TX setup with the SIM can be an issue - but I can't see an easy way around that.

A lot of the problem comes from newbies getting too strung out on getting the SIM to be totally "accurate" or "realistic" - every helicopter handles a bit differently, so does a sim, get over it, get on with learning the controls, orientations and how to fly.

A library of parts - are you kidding? Every helicopter reacts differently to the same paddle weight reduction and other flight setup changes. If you try to implement this feature every dam newbie around the world will be whinging that "my helicopter and parts have not been implemented" and the cost of the sim will go through the roof without adding any significant benefit. If the cost goes up, less people will use it, those that cannot afford it will be disavantaged.

"A what if aid" Once you can fly confidently you take a weight out of the paddles and fly the heli, there is no risk in doing this - it won't crash suddenly, you measure the change in flight performance (no simulator will get this right for you heli and your setup).

"Am I ready for carbon blades" Anybody can use carbon blades, if you are only hovering or doing circuits they won't help you one bit - and there is no dam point simulating that! If you are getting into 3D you need carbon blades to avoid a boom strike and to obtain better bite - period.


Protos | Logo 400 & 500 | Sceadu Evo | Freya Evo | Trex600N | Avant FX

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10-13-2005 12:14 PM  12 years agoPost 4
smokingtommy

rrApprentice

east sussex ,england

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

i agree well said i am still in the learning stage i have a raptor v.2 30 then i got a g3 sim but was still unshore of how all the bits and bobs worked as my rappy was artf so i whent out and got a ARK X400 my first build and this was a great learning curve for me and not long after i had my first crash owell but as regards to the sim although good. if the things that you had mentioned were put into a sim i could see a big bennerfit to the novice i.e you upgrade the hole head cool then you try to fly it on the sim and it flys backwords at you so you need to change the length of the linkage by x amount of mm untill you get it right . this would be so much better if the sim would let you do this and with the use of the internet and multiplaying the help from others would be endless .
great thinking

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10-13-2005 12:37 PM  12 years agoPost 5
Lorents

rrElite Veteran

Oslo, Norway

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I think the point nheather's is trying to make is that it would be easier for beginners (and experienced) if the simulators could let you modify the helicopters in the same way you would in real life.

G3 actually have parameters that I recognize from real life, but to tweak XTR I need to read the help file and experiment with values that tells me nothing.

I think the possibility to add different parts from a library would be cool even if not all parts in the world is available. It will not be totally realistic but could give me an idea if I should do a upgrade or not



What comes around goes around.

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10-13-2005 02:33 PM  12 years agoPost 6
RCfan

rrKey Veteran

Longwood, FL USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

There's merit to both nheather's and Jafa's statements. I think the biggest thing lacking in current sims is documentation. Beginners are instantly overwhelmed by the amount of information they have to take in to get off the ground ... radio, engine, heli setup, gyro, et.al. Sims should help ANSWER questions not help create additional ones.

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10-13-2005 06:42 PM  12 years agoPost 7
B52fixer

rrApprentice

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Just so everyone knows on G3 you CAN choose different blades both woodies and carbons! You can also change the weight of the paddles etc.
-Andrew

A word to the wise ain't necessary. It's the stupid ones that need the advice.

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10-13-2005 07:39 PM  12 years agoPost 8
nheather

rrKey Veteran

Horsham, West Sussex, UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

B52fixer

Yes from my experience with G2 this is one area where I think RealFlight has the lead but it is still far from perfect.

Cheers,

Nigel

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10-13-2005 11:36 PM  12 years agoPost 9
atb

rrApprentice

England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I got reflex xtr in jan plugged it in crashed for a couple of weeks managed to get the first full flight out of the way etc etc it was then i started to ask questions so i got someone who flew helis to have a fly they told me it was ok so i flew it again from there on.

to learn how a heli works i built one... when i wasnt sure what something did or why it was on i researched it a little.

so ok my heli was alot more dosile in real life... so what i didnt crash on my first flight and i didnt even have a training u/c on

personally i think the sims are ok as they are. or do you just want to be a virtual moddler who never has to spend an additional penny when crashing (come on i get a buzz from taking my heli home in one piece) never has to read an instruction manual again (hmmm living dangerously in the heli world for real) get wet when it rains (me... i was born waterproof im pretty sure you would have been too) get burned when its sunny (hmmm at least you wouldnt have to go out to the chemists for lotion) and most of for the chatter and laughs you get at the flying field.

in my eyes if someone wants to be a vitual moddeller then go do some vrml (virtual reality moddelling language).

otherwise have a real heli play with it... tinker with it and go home happy

ok so thats just my opinion and sorry if i have offended anyone and i do kinda see where you coming from but dont you think that that a flight simulator is to simulate flight. why not make a different simulator like an rc construction sim and keep the flight sim for what it was intended.

one other thing... how many disks do you like to load when installing a game?

see ya's




atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.

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