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HomeAircraftHelicopterBeginners Corner › dumb question: spin up
10-13-2005 12:08 AM  12 years agoPost 1
Pirre_GW

rrNovice

Lier, Belgium

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Hello,

this is going to be a really dumb question - but hey, it's the newbie corner eh?

Maybe it's because my native language is NOT english, but .. one thing still confuses me . (and bugs me, so that's why ..)

Everywhere I hear and see talk about 'Idle up', 'Idle up1' and 'Idle up2', 'spin up', 'spool up' (as in 'spin up don't spool up')..

?heh???????

Will some gentle person please (stop laughing and) write a little explanation for me about what these terms now exactly mean?
(or do they all mean the same?)

This will sure make my life better!

Big Thanks mate!!
Pirre, BE.

P.S. At least my new T-rex CDE flies like a dream !

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10-13-2005 12:13 AM  12 years agoPost 2
A. Bundy

rrElite Veteran

Aurora,IL. 30W/SW of Chicago

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Spin up/spool up-Power up the rotor blades........Idle 1+2 are just mode settings that typically allow the motor to stay at high RPM all the time so you can fly inverted using the lower half of the throttle stick.Mid to Up is upright flight.Mid to bottom is inverted flight.

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10-13-2005 02:21 AM  12 years agoPost 3
BC Don

rrElite Veteran

Calgary, AB Canada

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Spin up or Spool up is what happens when you first apply throttle. The main blades have some intertia in them and it takes a bit of power to get them to whatever head speed you have set. Thus, they are "Spinning up" or "Spooling up" to get to their head speed.

IdleUp is really just saying that the engine idle is kept high. Idle1, Idle2 , Idle 3 are all different (or can be) throttle / pitch curves. I have all 3 pretty well the same, going from -10 to 0 to +10 pitch with the throttle going from 100% to 50% and back to 100% so I can fly inverted (when I get the skill).

Hope this helped.

Got Money? Send it to me, I'm a Heli Addict.

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10-13-2005 04:12 AM  12 years agoPost 4
DarkSideSimba

rrVeteran

Alaska

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Lamin terms guys.. LOL.. Key Vets are very knowlegdable but very technical. Heeeehhh..

Spool up is or rather say like a real life heli, when the motor starts up you see the main blades start to spin very slowly and continue to build up speed till they are moving at a decent rate, the speed (RPM) they are moving at is refered to as head speed. Untill the main blades are moving at that decent rate to that givin set idle this is refeered to as spooling up or spin up..

Idle Ups are just say like a cruize control for the motor, it keeps the motor at a given RPM and lets you use your complete collective (full range of the main blade pitch weather it be in the + or -) to fly with..

DSS

Evolution.. Times Have Changed.. Has Your Heli??? Sceadu Evo.. Tomorrows Heli.. Todays Evolution

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10-13-2005 04:31 AM  12 years agoPost 5
nojohnny101

rrElite Veteran

10 miles north of Cincy, OHIO

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hey
Pirre_GW.....WELCOME TO RUNRYDER

when i was a newbie (have not advanced to beginner) i was once told by a very knowledgable veteran on here:

"the only question that is considered stupid are the ones that are not asked"....keep that in mind.....

i think the above explanations pretty much sum it up....anything else...

HAPPY FLYIN


Thanks
~Will~

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10-13-2005 08:49 AM  12 years agoPost 6
Pirre_GW

rrNovice

Lier, Belgium

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Hey guys, thanks for your replies!

So a recapitulation, to see if I understand the lesson right:

- 'spin up' and 'spool up' are basicly thesame, although in some contexts 'spooling up' seems to represent a more forced (high throttle, high torque) way of spinning up, while 'spinning up' is referring to a more gentle way of letting the blades reach their rpm..
(where 'spooling up' gives more wear on the gear)

- 'idle up' is a high level of 'idle' setting, as opposed to a 'normal' idle (= slow) running motor - is 'idle up' then in fact more or less thesame as 'throttle hold' ??

- 'idle up1' and 'idle up2' (and ...) refer to the different program settings (or curves) that you can preset on the tx.

Thanx for reviewing my homework, teachers!

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10-13-2005 01:35 PM  12 years agoPost 7
lrogers

rrKey Veteran

Mobile, Al

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No," throttle hold" keeps the engine at a speed fast enough so the engine can idle without dying, but not fast enough to engage the clutch. This lets you pratice auto-rotations. It also is a safe way to start your engine and carry the helo from the start line to the flight line; if you bump the throttle stick, the rpm does not go up, the clutch does not engage and you don't get the crap beat out you by the rotor blades.
I think the terms idle up1, idle up 2 etc. are very confusing and are a hold over from the days before computerized radios. I think the terms normal, mode1, mode2 make more sense and are just a way of accessing different pitch/throttle curves at the flip of a switch.
As a beginner myself, Normal is the only "mode" I'm using right now. I have the pitch curve set for -1 to + 9 and the throttle curve set so that I hover at 3/4 stick with a head rpm of 1680 (this was in accordance with the suggested values in my helo's manual). I've also set the curves for mode 1 and mode 2, but my skill level isn't at the point yet where I can use them.
This hobby has a lot of technical stuff that really makes it interesting.

Larry Rogers - R/C Helicopter Pilot

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10-13-2005 01:37 PM  12 years agoPost 8
cwhover

rrApprentice

El Paso, TX

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Pirre_GW,

Pretty close, but maybe a little more information will help. Idle up is a little misleading, because the engine generally doesn't go to idle. Basically, "idle up" is a throtle curve that keeps the throttle at a high value even when the throttle/collective stick is brought down to a low position. For rough values, you might have 100% at both full low and high stick, and 50% throttle at center stick. That way you can maintain power with negative pitch when at low stick, allowing inverted flight. Throttle hold is kind of the opposite of idle up. It is used to keep the throttle at a fixed setting, usually a reliable idle, while allowing the collective pitch to have normal travel. This is used for practicing auto rotations, and can also be used as a safety feature while starting the heli and carrying it out to the flight line. If you accidently bump the stick or flight mode switch, the throttle will stay at idle which is a good thing (don't ask how I know ).

Carl
VISA field rep

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10-13-2005 02:23 PM  12 years agoPost 9
Rcer22

rrVeteran

Somewhere In The Adirondack Mountains

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Spin up and spool up mean the same thing
In my mind spool up is just a fancier way of saying spin up.
But they mean the same thing.

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10-13-2005 04:34 PM  12 years agoPost 10
Elmote

rrApprentice

Los Angeles

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Actually I believe they are not the same thing. The engine (turbine, not piston) spools-up (does the same in jet planes), and once fully on-line and idling, power increase spins-up the rotor. But I could be wrong.

Elmo Te

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10-14-2005 02:05 PM  12 years agoPost 11
Pirre_GW

rrNovice

Lier, Belgium

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Ok, I (slowly ) begin to see things clearly...

So - my Throttle Hold switch in fact switches between 'Throttle Hold' and 'Idle Up'.
(in which throttle hold is set to -104 so throttle off)
It also cuts all subtrim. I use Throttle Hold when I'm not in flight e.g. to approach/move/.. the heli.. I guess this IS safe then.

And I now also see the use for that little push button called 'Throttle Cut' (if throttle hold is set to a higher value, like for nitro helis)

IdleUp1, 2 etc would be 'Normal' and 'Stunt' then on my TX.

Elmo Te - this could indeed be the explanation of the two terms
I guess it's all coming from the nitro world where there's an auto clutch function involved ..


Thanks a lot guys for the info!
Really was helpful !!

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10-22-2005 12:44 AM  12 years agoPost 12
Elmote

rrApprentice

Los Angeles

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Actually TH switches between HOLD and normal, or non-hold, and is used when ever you want to insure a stable idle (starting, carrying, practicing autos, or when the tail servo dies and you need to stop the resulting spin (hit the TH, and auto to the ground)). TH is set a tick or 2 faster then normal idle to insure a good solid tic-over, but not so fast that the clutch engages. Engine will remain at idle no matter what the stick does.
Normal has 2 or 3 settings. Intial or "normal", idle up 1, and perhaps idleup 2. All 3 of these will be overridden by the TH switch, so you can switch to hold at anytime, and switch out of hold to whatever the other setting was.
The "normal" flight curve has a low idle at low stick with an ever increasing throttle as the stick moves up, as needed to keep the headspeed even as the blade pitch and drag increase.
Idle up 1 keeps the throttle up around 45-55% at low stick as needed to keep the desired headspeed even when the blades are at zero or slightly negative pitch with no lift and little drag. If you land in idle up 1 the heli will sit there with the rotor turning at full speed and not spin down until you switched back to "normal". This mode is used for Forward Flight and mild loops, rolls, stall turns, etc.
Idle up 2 is used for 3D or inverted flight. the lower half of the throttle curve mirrors the top half so that the rotor gets 100% power at low stick, 50 % at midstick and 100% at full stick. Thus the headspeed remains constant when at zero pitch (midstick, 50%) full pitch (+9 or so pitch, 100%) and when inverted, full negative pitch (low stick, -9 pitch, 100%).
Your kill switch is convienent, but not needed. If you use it set it so that it wont kill the engine unless you are already at idle.

Elmo Te

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