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10-12-2005 10:07 PM  12 years agoPost 1
xcellflyer

rrApprentice

Lake View Terrace CA 91342

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hi guys
i hate to start a new topic but i think ill get a quicker response this way....heres the question....do i need an o-ring in between the top of the clutch bell and bearing block??there is a gap and it does rest on the middle bearing. heres a pic to show you guys....thanks

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y8...r/clutchgap.jpg

Deadstick: Two of these can be found on a transmitter that has been inproperly charged.

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10-12-2005 10:21 PM  12 years agoPost 2
airdodger

rrElite Veteran

Johnston USA

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Can't see anything above the pinion gear, pic is too dark. Chris

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10-12-2005 11:55 PM  12 years agoPost 3
RC Rotortek

rrApprentice

North Yorkshire - England

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I assume you are talking about the gap between the top of the pinion and the bottom of the bearing block.

The gap is not supposed to be there!!

The pinion is bonded into the bearing and the bearing is bonded into the bearing block by MA at the factory. Your pinion has pulled out of the bearing part way. You will probably find that when you install it, that the bottom edge of the clutch bell may be resting on the doubler plates.

If I were you, I'd gently heat the pinion/block, and pull it the rest of the way out. Clean the internal surface of the bearing and the part of the pinion that inserts into the bearing with a solvent based cleaner to degrease and remove any deposits. Apply some red threadlocker (called bearing lock in the UK), to the insertable surface area of the pinion and push it fully into the bearing again, elliminating the gap you have. Let is set overnight.

Don't apply too much threadlocker as it will squeeze out when you push the pinion in and could seep into the bearing, locking it up!

This should sort your problem out.

Work sucks!!

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10-13-2005 12:02 AM  12 years agoPost 4
xcellflyer

rrApprentice

Lake View Terrace CA 91342

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rc rotortek
you say the clutch might rest on doubler plates and im not sure if i have those...i have a graphite S.E...i dont know if this changes anything...but other then that...thanks for the response and i will do what you said...

Deadstick: Two of these can be found on a transmitter that has been inproperly charged.

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10-13-2005 12:13 AM  12 years agoPost 5
RC Rotortek

rrApprentice

North Yorkshire - England

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Ah,

Didn't know it was for an SE, assumed it was for a Fury. Just looking at Dr Bens wise words in your other thread, he mentions a rare set up with an O'ring in the gap, which is something I'm not familiar with. Dr Ben clearly is and he knows these birds. This may be correct in your case.

Still suggest though that if the bottom of your Clutch Bell is resting on the bearing block immediately below it, then the pinion must have dropped that distance you can see in the gap. On the Fury, the Clutch Bell could sit on the Clutch Driver Bearing Block which is directly below it if that gap was present. When it is set correctly, the Clutch Bell will only clear the bearing block by a mm or two.

If you try my suggestion, why don't you dry assemble the pinion back into the bearing without threadlocker and see how it all fits before bonding it properly? It will also allow you to fit a new O Ring if it is the setup Dr Ben talks about.

Work sucks!!

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10-13-2005 12:57 AM  12 years agoPost 6
xcellflyer

rrApprentice

Lake View Terrace CA 91342

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i looked back at my other post and i understand it now...thanks for your help rcrotortek...i have to get an o-ring in there to stop it from hitting the middle bearing in the block and relocktite it to the ID of the lower bearing in the block. thanks again..

Deadstick: Two of these can be found on a transmitter that has been inproperly charged.

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10-13-2005 01:54 AM  12 years agoPost 7
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Yep, that's what you need to do. If that pinion is allowed to ride upon that middle bearing, something is going to, shall we say, "get annoyed".

Whatever oring you can secure which keeps the pinion spaced out and off from the middle bearing will be fine.

Post a pic with a little better lighting when you get it all back together. Remember to clean and primer the pinion before reassembling it into the lower bearing with Loctite 603, 609, or 640.

Ben Minor

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10-13-2005 02:29 AM  12 years agoPost 8
xcellflyer

rrApprentice

Lake View Terrace CA 91342

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will do...if you can enlarge the pic it easier to se the gap...i had to darken it or else it was too brite and you couldnt see anything...but again thanks for all your help and im going to reassemble it with red locktite. thanks again...

Deadstick: Two of these can be found on a transmitter that has been inproperly charged.

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10-13-2005 02:47 AM  12 years agoPost 9
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Use the red loctite if that's all you have, but remember it's no accident that they use a product either similar or identical to one of the ones I listed AND that they're not red. That pinion bond is critical, and if it fails, it ruins the top of the pinion when it spins in the bearing. The task designed bearing retaining compounds with primer N or T are far superior to any one of the variants of "red" loctite threadlocker.

FWIW,

Ben Minor

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10-13-2005 04:21 AM  12 years agoPost 10
xcellflyer

rrApprentice

Lake View Terrace CA 91342

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okay..i decided since i have a really expensive helicopter and i dont want to mess anymore up then what is already messed up, i will go the extra mile and buy the $15 locktite 640....now what about the primer stuff what is that called??

Deadstick: Two of these can be found on a transmitter that has been inproperly charged.

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10-13-2005 07:57 AM  12 years agoPost 11
RC Rotortek

rrApprentice

North Yorkshire - England

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Thanks for the information on the Loctite Dr Ben, I think I'll get some of that too, I have a pinion to replace on my Fury shortly.

Glad you got it all resolved xcellflyer!!

Work sucks!!

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10-13-2005 06:12 PM  12 years agoPost 12
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Among other sources, you can go to MSC.com or McMaster-Carr. You'll be looking for Loctite Primer N or Primer T. Yes, it costs a little bit. It also will last you a long time as will that bottle of 640 loctite. I REALLY prefer the 640 because it's just a little bit thicker than the 603/609, which helps keep it from going places it shouldn't. You can often find it locally if you live in or near a larger city that has a full service NAPA auto parts store. They call it "Cleaner/accelerator for Anaerobics".

Though the up front costs on these products is a little high, you're putting money in the bank by improving the longevity of expensive subassemblies and of the overall model, too. I keep 603, 640, 242, 22MS, 290, 638, and 271 on my bench. You'd be amazed out how well these products work when you have the exact one on the bench needed for a specific purpose.

You may or may have seen this post (scroll down) that I made a few years ago, but it'll tell you a lot about this loctite stuff and how you choose for applications.

Have fun.

Ben Minor

>>
271, Red: High strength threadlocker for larger diameter hardware.

262, Red: High strength threadlocker for for hardware smaller than that which uses 271 (more like heli parts). Either does a good job for our stuff, however. I see 271 most commonly in auto parts stores.

609, Green: Retaining compound, high strength, for mounting slip fit bearings to shafts. An appropriate product for tail boxes.

603, Green: Retaining compound, high strength, similar to 609 but good where the parts may be a little oily. Good for mounting oilite bushings in housings, BTW.

640: Green: Retaining compound, high strength. Similar to 609 and 603. Lacks the oil tolerance of 603. I use it where I might have trouble with adjacent bearing contamination with the product, such as start shaft bearing blocks, since it has a little greater viscosity than 603.

638, Green, rather thick: Ultra strong retaining compound for assemblies with a marked amount of slop in the fit, min 0.004". Don't try to use this stuff for our normal bearings on healthy shafts. It sets almost immediately in the tight gap, and you'll never have the chance to get the bearing into place.

290, Green: Wicking product for thread locking AFTER assembly. Medium strength, much stronger than 242 blue in my experience. Not the correct choice per loctite for bearing mounting.

242, 243 Blue: Classic medium strength threadlocker for most of our threadlocking applications. 243 is the oil tolerant version.

222MS, Purple: Low strength threadlocker for small diameter or otherwise delicate fasteners.

Bottom line:
NEVER choose a loctite product by color alone.

You can build a really good model with 242 for thread locking parts you'll need to remove, 271/262 for screws you really don't want to ever move on their own, and 609/603 for fixturing bearings to shafts. 290 is great for set screws which needed to be tweaked for ideal postition of the part on a shaft (like a bevel gear) and which you don't want to have to go back and remove the screw to apply the loctite.

I know guys use other products for these tasks, but these recs are based on the specs and technical data sheets published by Loctite.

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10-14-2005 07:29 PM  12 years agoPost 13
NHATRANGNHOMAI

rrApprentice

usa

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please help
everytime i take out the clutch drive , after many flies.
on the top of pinion all way seperate out with the bearing block no matter i try to do a red loctite before ( but not much space to put red loctite around the top of pinion because if i put too much i may going to the bearing )
oncetime the top of pinion wear out too much . i can not put loctite back on again because too lose
can someone tell me how do i make it solid together and last for longtime,
i don t want it spin inside the bearing , ( and the bearing not working hard )
thank you for reading my post

goitoibayvoi*****English isn't my first language and I try to write as well as possible but mis

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10-14-2005 08:50 PM  12 years agoPost 14
looseblades

rrVeteran

ocean gate N.J. usa

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i would check the alighment of the driver and fan hub. the i would use green locktite along with locktite primer. note the primer will make the locktite dry faster, make sure the pinion is seated all the way in or you will have a problem getting it apart.
roy

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10-17-2005 04:36 AM  12 years agoPost 15
xcellflyer

rrApprentice

Lake View Terrace CA 91342

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update
heres a pic of the spacers that i got..will this work?? nothing is glued yet...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y8.../Picture576.jpg

Deadstick: Two of these can be found on a transmitter that has been inproperly charged.

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10-17-2005 05:35 PM  12 years agoPost 16
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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As long as those spacers don't drag on the outer shield of the lowermost bearing in the block, you'll be fine with that set-up.

Note about the primers that I forgot to mention...............I nice light coat is good. I heavy coat is NOT, I repeat NOT, better.

Ben

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10-17-2005 11:34 PM  12 years agoPost 17
xcellflyer

rrApprentice

Lake View Terrace CA 91342

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dr. ben
wow you really know your stuf...what i will do is cut the wshers a littl smaller so that they dont rub on the rest of the bearing..thanks again for all your help!

Deadstick: Two of these can be found on a transmitter that has been inproperly charged.

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