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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Raptor 50 Tail kick(NOT RESOLVED, its back
10-11-2005 02:57 PM  12 years agoPost 1
patriot21

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Byron,MN

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Hey all,
Just coming across a new problem..... every once in awhile my tail will kick about 3 inchs or so to the left..... It is really quick and it seems to happen when i put full positive collective in it...but it also happens other times.... any ideas also it normally happens in idle up.... i am running about 1900 rpm.....high speed is 1 turn out... it doesn;t sound rich at all.
****Solution for me: leaned out the low end....problem gone!!!)

Rappy 50
401/9254
csm revlock
9202s on cyclic
os hyper 50

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10-11-2005 03:08 PM  12 years agoPost 2
v58 fuy

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UK - Kent

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I dont have the answer but will watch the post closely, as I have a similar problem on a new R50 with hyper. When I apply full collective from hover sometimes I get a kick to the left, and if I come of the power quickly at the top of a climbout sometimes I get a kick then.

I think it must be some sort of torque reaction to the full power being applied quite quickly, it maybe a gain issue in the gyro, but if anything it sounds like we both would need more gain not less?

David

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10-11-2005 03:10 PM  12 years agoPost 3
patriot21

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its a strange thing because i changed my gyro gain to almost 90% and it still does it but just a quicker level....

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10-11-2005 03:15 PM  12 years agoPost 4
patriot21

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Byron,MN

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1) bigger tail blades: It never did it before.....so not sure this is the answer
2) more gyro gain I am running 78% on my Gy401/9254... i am up to 90% and it never did it before at 70%
3) worn out belt and rear tail gear pinon: i am thinking this may be the answer
4) Belt is loose:my belt is very tight....

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10-11-2005 03:25 PM  12 years agoPost 5
v58 fuy

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UK - Kent

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My R50 is only like 2 weeks old so I don't think it's my tail pulley or worn belt.
My belt is tight to recommended settings, my tail blades are 85mm NHP carbons.
My 401 is running 60% gain on a 9253 with the ball at 13mm out from centre of servo.
My pitch is setup to -4.5 to +10, with a normal throttle curve of 10,20,30,40,80 and 9252 collective servo - she climbs like a rocket on steroids.

David

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10-11-2005 03:57 PM  12 years agoPost 6
patriot21

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Byron,MN

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and V58.... i was thinking it could be a bad bearingcausing a glitch but if yours is only 2 weeks old.... than that shouldn;t be the problem...
mine is only about a month and 1/2 old.

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10-11-2005 04:45 PM  12 years agoPost 7
skydemon02

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Forney, Texas (Just East of Dallas)

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Engine mixture not right
rx interference(vibration cause or not)
battery for gyro(onboard battery) low
linkage to tail binding
worn wires
possible bad battery or onbaord battery meter

More than likely it is your mixture. My mixture low end needle was 90 degrees off(it was rich) when I went to a new mufler. I had to take my high end needle(to lean) way out. No more tail kick. I could have sworn it was electronics but it wasnt. Gryo gain has nothing to do with it. Tail wag=to high no tail wag+not holding heading=to low Tail wag is a very consistant thing.

I am running Raptor 30 V1 tt36 with mvp muffler, 401 gyro with high speed servo.

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10-11-2005 04:49 PM  12 years agoPost 8
dankers

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Melbourne, Australia

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Low end mixture too rich. 99% sure, its an old problem so have a go with the search feature and see what that shows up for other solutions. Every Raptor I have seen do this, I corrected by a tiny leaning on the lowend mixture.

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10-11-2005 05:10 PM  12 years agoPost 9
helibird

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St. George, UT

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More then likely mixture problems, I would reset all needles back to factory and retune the engine. I've had similar problems and this solved them. I had some other tail kick problems, one was associated with the collar on the main shaft coming loose and rotating on the main bearing. The other was the auto bearing slipping.

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10-11-2005 06:28 PM  12 years agoPost 10
patriot21

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Byron,MN

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A friend of mine who owns a LHS.... has a raptor and found that his oneway bearing went bad as his tail was kicking....

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10-11-2005 07:39 PM  12 years agoPost 11
patriot21

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Byron,MN

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2000 mah nimh a hydromax or something like that

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10-11-2005 08:25 PM  12 years agoPost 12
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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Did you take the time to set up your tail rotor linkage correctly or did you flip it to HH and have at it?

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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10-11-2005 09:22 PM  12 years agoPost 13
v58 fuy

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UK - Kent

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I flew this afternoon/evening and the weather was slightly warmer plus engine is breaking in a little more, so leaned the low and high just a little - guess what, full power climbout now with no tail kick at the start.

However I did notice once whilst adjusting the needles that on one climbout, at the top I went rapid negative pitch of about -4 and got a huge "wobble". Re-adjusted the needles and this disappeared - but can anybody tell me the reason for this happening as I can't remember which needle I changed to stop it?

David

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10-11-2005 09:58 PM  12 years agoPost 14
DrDan

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Potosi, Missouri

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First go with your mixture settings. If you have your engine setup correctly and you still have a tail kicking problem, then troubleshoot the tail.

Reset the needles to factory settings.

How I was taught to set the engine was to first set the idle using the pinch technique. Start the engine and let it run a sec. Pinch the fuel line and count how many seconds it take to die. This should be between 3-5 seconds without any increase in the engine RPM's. (Some mufflers will create a slight increase). If you get the idle set right, you will have no trouble setting up the main. To setup the main, you can do it a few ways. I was taught to do some climbouts and listen to see if the engine bogs down. If it bogs, the main is too rich. Lean it until the engine doesn't bog. Then check the engine temp. The backplate should be around 100 - 110 degrees, or the head should be around 180 or so. You can also hold your finger on the backplate. If you can hold it on the backplate for more than 5 seconds, then you're about right.


From what I understand about the idle needle in a 50 is that about 3/4 of the carb is controlled with the idle, and the main is the top end. Ofcourse, the main plays a role in the whole thing, but the idle is the bread and butter for a 50. (Maybe other folks will add to this or even correct me)

If you are too rich on the idle, you will have to really lean the main to get the power you want. When you do a full power climbout, you are going to force the engine to go lean and it will overspeed causing the gyro to screw up and not hold.

On a 50, the bread and butter is the idle!


Dr. Dan

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10-11-2005 11:36 PM  12 years agoPost 15
HeliKopter Ken

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Gray, LA

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What if the tail still kicks with a Throttle Jockey rev max Govornor installed shouldn't it keep the rotor RPM the same. This has always been a problem on my raptors, not very bad can hardly notice it. My raptor with the OS 37 is pretty bad now after a rebuild from a crash.

Thanks for the Info

Raptor Ken

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10-12-2005 12:38 AM  12 years agoPost 16
Bato

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Monterrey, Mexico

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Is sounds like a RPM / pitch mixing problem. Watch out for the positive degrees you have in the climb. If you are doing a climb out you have to remember that the engine is supposed to be running at 100% or really close to that. Perhaps you are demanding to much power with the pitch angels.

A friend of mine was doing impressive climb outs (with some tail movement) and we later found out that he was -4 +18 on the pitch. He was putting a lot of load on the engine.

Hope it helps.

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10-12-2005 01:26 AM  12 years agoPost 17
patriot21

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Byron,MN

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Tail kick resolved!!!!
Hi all....
Thanks for all the suggestions.... Tonight , i leaned out my low end a little more and it solved the problem!!! my motor wasn;t properly tuned.... i was just too scared to overheat it;....
could somebody email me a pick of their low end screw on the oshyper... i would like to see where others are at..
davbow@sio.midco.net

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10-12-2005 03:06 AM  12 years agoPost 18
DrDan

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Potosi, Missouri

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Sent one to you. Hope it helps.


Dr. Dan

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10-13-2005 07:02 PM  12 years agoPost 19
patriot21

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Byron,MN

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bump

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10-13-2005 07:12 PM  12 years agoPost 20
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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Did you peek inside the tail case and check the pin in the red gear is staying put?

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Raptor 50 Tail kick(NOT RESOLVED, its back
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