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› Time for new 3DMP packs - choices, choices!
10-10-2005 11:57 AM  12 years agoPost 1
Nick T

rrApprentice

West Sussex, UK

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Morning all

Well the time for new packs for the 3DMP has almost arrived - down to one pack, and that is showing ominous signs!

Seems I managed about 75 cycles on the factory packs and 10/15 less on the home built creations. The factory pack may well continue for a while longer, but is now notably down in duration/punch.

Heres the thing. From what I see there are three main choices (prob more I am not aware of).

TPower pro lites - 10S2P
FPower 10S5P
FPower new 20C - 5S1P, 3700Mah (two needed)

It seems the TP and FP new cells are a better bet than the now out of date 10S5P (correct me if I am wrong) and are cheaper.

The only thing against the FP ones is that they only come in 5S1P blocks - I think this will mean twice the charge time as each pack will need charging individually and then I will need to match the voltages exactly to avoid the problems the Ion guys are/were having with puffy cells.

The TP pack is already a 10S, are the cells as good as the new FP cells as I dont see them rated at 20C?

Thanks for helping with my choices - these things, although cheaper than they were, still represent a large investment!

Cheers

Nick

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10-10-2005 02:02 PM  12 years agoPost 2
Saint728

rrProfessor

Honolulu, Hawaii

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What about the other 10S5P packs from Flightpower? Here is the link to look at them. Not sure what the C rating is, but they are made for the 3DMP. http://www.flightpower.co.uk/prodde...prod=4010544150

Take Care,
Cheers, Patrick

Check the hotties in my Gallery
http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/9019/?all=photo

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10-10-2005 02:16 PM  12 years agoPost 3
Nick T

rrApprentice

West Sussex, UK

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Saint - sorry I was not clear, thats the one I am refering to, heve one already at about 75 cycles.

Nick

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10-10-2005 02:41 PM  12 years agoPost 4
iachia

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Milan, Italy

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You may have one more choice: the new TP 2100s 15C.
At the monent there isn't a single 10s2p pack but you can get 2 5s2p 4.2A and run them in series...
If you take a look on rcgroups there's a thread about them with power graph compared to the prolites and the kokams.

I was thinking of trying them but I may wait till they come out with the single 10s2p pack.
With this battery you'll also have slightly longer flight times (4200 ma vs 3700)

_____________
Synergy N9

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10-10-2005 07:41 PM  12 years agoPost 5
LLC

rrNovice

UK

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Hi Nick

FP will bring out a 10S1P

Kokams are being used by top Logo 14 pilots charging at 2.5C and 150+ flight so far:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423794

Polyquest are realistic with their cells:
http://www.aircraft-world.com/prod_...polyquestxp.htm

I'm trying to get hold of these cells as my 3 FP 10S5P are starting to feel weak after 180+ flights-2 of which have had warraty repairs.

Lee

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10-11-2005 09:43 AM  12 years agoPost 6
Nick T

rrApprentice

West Sussex, UK

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LLC

180 plus flights, wow. What did you need warranty repairs on?

My 10s4p Flight Power pack seem to hit low voltage at 2.7 Ahours now, used to still be going strong at 3.1Ah.

I dont think I will get more than another 10 cycles at most!

Refreshingly honest info on that Polyquest site! Are you going to run two packs in series, also what do they cost for the 3700 XP 10s - could not find a price?

Nick

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10-11-2005 11:00 AM  12 years agoPost 7
simon109

rrKey Veteran

Hampshire UK

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Hi Nick,

TP do a 10s5p and it works with there TP210 balancer (not sure if thats ready yet)

You will have to speak to Charlie @ TP for these packs. I think David (rcman) is still using them ?

I haven't flown my MP for months now, it's in the loft gathering dust. Just can't be doing with balancing the original packs after every charge

Simon.

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10-11-2005 07:31 PM  12 years agoPost 8
LLC

rrNovice

UK

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Hi Nick,

I had one parallel go on each of the 2 packs after about 40 to 60 flights. FP repaired the packs quickly and efficiently. I think we need to look ahead and start again with the new cells by all the firms and hope that this next generation of cells are as good as they claim.

By the way I was told that the 10s5p as recommended by Jan should withstand 45 amps constant and that other configurations weren't lasting for more than 30 flights at the time Jan was testing cells. It was said that more tabs spread the load better than just a few cells but at the cost of more chances of problem cells. The bit that concerns me is cell failure and the tedious balancing even after using some balancers.

I am trying to get hold of the latest Kokams and FP as they will be more readily available in the UK. I haven't found Polyquest XP here but this US site gives some price indication:-
http://www.purehobby.com/20C POLYQUEST PAGE.htm

I also found some interesting new cells at Overlanders:-
http://www.overlander.co.uk/detail....oryid=89&ID=594

Anyway, It's time we have lipo packs that can deliver performance and longer life and whoever come out with this first will get lots of orders from me!!!

All the best,

Lee

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10-11-2005 07:41 PM  12 years agoPost 9
LLC

rrNovice

UK

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Just heard that the FP 10s1p 3700 20-30C packs will be available in about 2 weeks time.

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10-11-2005 08:44 PM  12 years agoPost 10
rcman

rrKey Veteran

Logan, Utah

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I do have a couple of 10s 5p Thunder power packs that work very well
Charlie will build them for you if you want them.
They seem to hold hard pulls longer then the 2ps packs do
There a little bit heavier
I put a couple of picture below of the differences
I am very happy with the TP pack. I have a couple of packs (10s2p's) that have well over a 100 flights and yes there starting to get a little weak but still fly the heli very nice
I did have one other TP 10s2p start to puff after 132 flights but I am pretty sure I discharged it way to far down a couple of times

I think the big key is to look at the C discharge rate, to get these packs to last we need to be above the rate we are pulling out of them
IMO if we have a setup that pulls 40 amp cont. then we need a pack that is rated to pull 60 amps cont, if we setup our helis this way we will get a lot better life cycle out of our lipo's
David

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10-17-2005 04:03 PM  12 years agoPost 11
iachia

rrVeteran

Milan, Italy

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Hi guys, I just got an info exchange with flight power about the 10s1p 3700ma pack and they told me it's going to be out soon.
Now, I have been flying TP10s2p and I have 2 packs with 50 cycles each that are starting to show the signs of age: less punch and shorter duration...
I'm quite unhappy with this so I'm looking arround for a better alternative and was looking in the FP evo 20 series and wanted to ask if some of you have already tryed 2x5s1p pack in a 3DMP, Logo 14 or similar?
Also, will a 20C battery allow a little longer flight times due to the voltage beeng more constant? I'm afraid about the difference in capacity with the TP (4000ma) and don't want to be able to fly only for 5 min...
Lastly, FP batteries have been known suffer unbalance problems in the past: how bad is this problem? My TP, even if they're not at their best, are still in perferct balance and I never had to balace them once!
Thanks for the help!

_____________
Synergy N9

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10-17-2005 04:36 PM  12 years agoPost 12
Nick T

rrApprentice

West Sussex, UK

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Watching this thread develop with interest. I really need new packs for the 3DMP but am wary as they cost so much and are not lasting well enough.

Has no one strapped the 20C cells to a large heli? Guess the real important info is the cylce life which will, i assume, still be unknown due the 20C's only being around a while.

On a plus note - 10S FPs are on the way, cant be bothered with two 5S and the added matching/extra charge time.

If 5P last longer partly due to more tabs, 1P will have tabs working a lot harder - does it matter - I thought Jans test results indicated that it did?

Nick

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10-17-2005 04:52 PM  12 years agoPost 13
rcman

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Logan, Utah

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I agree, I would like to see how this grows and what you guys end up with. I am very interested in see if there is something better out there
David

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10-17-2005 04:58 PM  12 years agoPost 14
iachia

rrVeteran

Milan, Italy

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If 5P last longer partly due to more tabs, 1P will have tabs working a lot harder - does it matter - I thought Jans test results indicated that it did?
I think this was true at the time Jan was making the first test with the batteries available at the time.

Anyway if you think that a TP 10s2p, at it's best, can take 45A (10-12C) constant discharge and 80A burst (20C), the new FP cells look very promising with a 74A constant and 111A burst rate. This should mean much less stress on the cells and lower temperature and, hopefully, longer life span.

_____________
Synergy N9

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10-17-2005 08:31 PM  12 years agoPost 15
LLC

rrNovice

UK

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I've heard that the tabs problem has been resolved and that the new FP cells are supplied by Polyquest-which is a good sign. I'm waiting to see the new 10s1p too and have just got my hands on a few Kokams to try. Apparently Kokam are so confident that their cells can match the life span of nicads that they won't need balancing-therefore no balance plugs fitted. But I guess only time will tell.

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10-20-2005 02:46 AM  12 years agoPost 16
FlightPower

rrVeteran

Herts UK

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Gentlemen,

The FlightPower Evolution 20 - 10s1p3700 20C pack configuration for the 3DMP is now in production.

We are using premium cell selection from our 100% inbound QC process followed by +/- 10 micro-ohm IR matching at 100% consistency for all cells across all of these packs along with multi-layer ultrasonic scan verified welding. We have verified whole10s-pack pack performace is fully available at 20-30C, consistent with single cell test results, including sustained 30C bursts at 111Amps. With this pack we are confident that we have raised the bar to an all time high.

The new 10s1p packs retain compatibility with our existing 5s and 6s cell balancer units (and 5s diagnostic leads for those wishing to create attachments to other balancing systems). These packs are smaller and about 100g lighter than our10s5p packs and about $100 cheaper at £249.99 including UK VAT. ($376.50 USD without UK VAT).

We can take pre-orders by phone +44 (0) 1279 777 111 or on the website http://www.flightpower.co.uk and these packs will start flowing from the end of October 05.

Julian

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10-20-2005 04:24 AM  12 years agoPost 17
rcman

rrKey Veteran

Logan, Utah

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Julian, that very interesting I can't wait to see how they compair to the rest of the packs.
Can you give us a size and weight of the 10s1p's. I wouldn't mind trying one maybe I will give you a call if the spec look good
David

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10-20-2005 05:37 AM  12 years agoPost 18
FlightPower

rrVeteran

Herts UK

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Hi rcman,

The dimensions of the Evo 20 10s1p pack are

W 45mm (1 3/4") T 35mm (1 3/8") L 300mm (11 7/8")

Weight 948g (2.1lb)

Cheers!

Julian

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10-20-2005 09:11 AM  12 years agoPost 19
Nick T

rrApprentice

West Sussex, UK

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Excellent - order on route.

Been very happy with my FP packs to date and the service has been very good.

Look forward to a new lease of mp flight, just need night goggles now.

Nick

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10-20-2005 10:28 AM  12 years agoPost 20
iachia

rrVeteran

Milan, Italy

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Julian, what balancers do we need with these packs? I saw you mentioned 5s and 6s but on your wen site I can only see the 6s version. Is there any difference beetwin the 2 other then the obvious capability of balancing one more cell with the 6s version?
In your experience how often do you need to balance the cells?
My TP 10s2p never needed balancing in 50 cycles so I want to know if I only need to buy 2x6s balancer or if I need to buy a set of balancer for every pack that I use.

Thanks for the info

EDIT: I have a little confusion about 6s balancers: when you say on your web site 2-6s balancer for 34£ does it mean you get 2 balancers or does it mean that one balancer can do from 2 cells to 6 cells?
sorry for the dumb question but I really can't understand it!

_____________
Synergy N9

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