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10-10-2005 10:43 AM  12 years agoPost 1
DRUMMER

rrApprentice

Dover, UK

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Hi guys,

desparate for replies so modfied the topic title..


my r 70 was running fine [apart from the pilot] when I lost the tail rotor servo the other day and it came down about five feet into long grass.
No obvious damage at all and fixed the servo to fly yesterday...however...

The starter will no longer turn the engine over [well a single turn or two if I help it by hand] to the point of starting to smell and smoke a little [the starter not me! ] so assumed not enough battery power and recharged my field charger battery overnight. This morning the same problem?
I have removed the plug and it turns over fast and spits out fuel but once plug is back in the starter can't turn the engine without hand assistance ?

Okay, something dumb I am doing, something dumb I have done in the past or some hidden engine damage from the heavy landing?

any help appreciated as always
drummer:

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10-10-2005 12:45 PM  12 years agoPost 2
trvo

rrVeteran

Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

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Just taking a few guess here...But if there is fuel spitting out and the starter struggling then the throttle servo position maybe a little high or the needles might have accidentally been knocked to a richer position thus flooding the engine???

Just a guess...

EDIT: Guess the title change worked on me...

Trev

-----
Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

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10-11-2005 02:00 PM  12 years agoPost 3
Showstopper

rrVeteran

pensacola, Fl

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You might have spun your fan and clutch assembly off of the Main motor shaft. It probably sounds kinda stupid but I had my clutch and fan assembly come lose before. You can not turn it over or any thing. Same type of symptoms.

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10-11-2005 03:41 PM  12 years agoPost 4
DRUMMER

rrApprentice

Dover, UK

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thanks for the input guys: i will pull the engine & clutch/fan and see how much falls out!
regards
drummer

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10-11-2005 05:19 PM  12 years agoPost 5
DRUMMER

rrApprentice

Dover, UK

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okay guys...that was fun

After stripping threads on many engine/muffler bolt heads/hex headed keys I fought the engine out of the frame....still panting.

The fan and clutch housing are still firmly attached but do have a powdery black residue [normal?]

Head came off and the top of the piston is black burnt colour but no hole or damage. Back plate came off and i could see inside.. no damage or broken metal...some slight brown colour on bearing cover [or color depending where you are] perhap corrosion? but nothing other than that. On re assembly the engine turns over by hand nicely until I pop the glow plug back in, then i have a hell of a compression that is a struggle to turn over by hand [anti clockwise from the top down right?] so no wonder the starter was struggling....

Only thing that struck me was and up/down movement of the fan clutch about 1 or 2 mil..again is this normal?

Any ideas on these syptoms? and could i simply have some sort of hydro lock

drummer

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10-11-2005 06:32 PM  12 years agoPost 6
Rafael23cc

rrKey Veteran

Junction City, KS

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How old is the engine?

I had a similar problem when my engine was brand new. The starter that I had would not move it at all. Neither a Dynatron @12V. I got a Heavy duty starter and 2 7-cell packs to do a wireless conversion.

16.8volts did the trick on a heavy duty starter. Now my 70 and my 90 start with no problems.

Rafael

Keep your feet on the ground, but your eyes on the sky.
Team Heliproz.com

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10-11-2005 10:39 PM  12 years agoPost 7
DRUMMER

rrApprentice

Dover, UK

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hi, well the engine is not old at all, although hard to accurate as i bought it in the heli as a used deal. But the previous owner did not fly it much so about three gallons through it in total. But the engine did start really nicely/easily until this wekk after a hard arrival following loss of tail rotor
sero arm... the search goes on?

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10-12-2005 12:10 AM  12 years agoPost 8
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Tell us what starter and what battery you're using.

Wolfgang

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10-12-2005 12:21 PM  12 years agoPost 9
DRUMMER

rrApprentice

Dover, UK

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hi,

it is a JP powertorque 2 and i run it off a ripmax power panel driven by a 12 volt motorcycle battery. Up until the tailservo mishap flight this combo spun the engine over really fasy and it was easy to start.
Now on the bench, even by hand the engine is hard to turn over on the comression stroke with the glow plug in?
Does that help in the quest?
thanks again
drummer

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10-12-2005 02:39 PM  12 years agoPost 10
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Your motor spins over just fine without the glow plug ?
That over-temp excursion you mentioned may have done in your starter.

Wolfgang

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10-13-2005 10:02 AM  12 years agoPost 11
DRUMMER

rrApprentice

Dover, UK

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well maybe I should try a heavy duty starter then.

The local shop has suggested starting the engine with a loose glow plug to relieve the compression then tighten when started...any thoughts on that?
regards
Drummer

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10-13-2005 10:25 AM  12 years agoPost 12
geeo

rrApprentice

Edinburgh, Scotland

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The local shop has suggested starting the engine with a loose glow plug to relieve the compression then tighten when started...any thoughts on that?
I have to so this with my elcheapo starter and my hyper 50, works fine, PITA to keep doing though, I guess i need a new starter too.

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10-13-2005 05:36 PM  12 years agoPost 13
Rafael23cc

rrKey Veteran

Junction City, KS

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I have gone the loose glow plug route before, on the Raptors is not that easy, but when you HAVE to fly you HAVE to fly..

I second the motion that your starter may have had its better days already...

Rafael

Keep your feet on the ground, but your eyes on the sky.
Team Heliproz.com

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10-13-2005 08:22 PM  12 years agoPost 14
GroundPounder

rrVeteran

South Africa, Cape Town

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The local shop has suggested starting the engine with a loose glow plug to relieve the compression then tighten when started...any thoughts on that?
At one of the local clubs I've seen more than one pilot having to do that on engines larger than 50 size.
Bad news if you smelled something burning in the starter.
If it isn't someting in the switch mechanism itself, that motor is fried.

Then again, even an over rich 50 will bog down most starters.

GroundPounder

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10-13-2005 08:58 PM  12 years agoPost 15
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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I have found that the typical 12V starter does not do well on 12V.

I run my starter on 20V. 16 cells of CP1700. My Torque Master 90 starts even my YS91 without a wimper.

Wolfgang

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10-14-2005 01:33 PM  12 years agoPost 16
DRUMMER

rrApprentice

Dover, UK

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well thanks for all your inputs guys. I will put the beast back together today and try a few starts with a loose glow plug. If the engine fires up as it should then I will invest in a heavy duty starter....if it does not start as it i should I will invest in a heavy duty hammer!!

cheers

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10-15-2005 06:10 AM  12 years agoPost 17
switch26

rrKey Veteran

San Jose

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well guys,this would of been easier just to try someone els's starter but
perhaps there isn't anyone els there to help,i would of went with the lose plug mi self,i would like to say that you dont really need a heavy duty starter for this engine but perhaps a more reliable starter and a good 12 volt batery,im curently using a hobbico torquemaster for my hyper 50 and it turns it over just fine,no need to losen the plug

By the way where's the topless pics? i want some LOL

just my 2 cents
Best Regards to all
Rafael(switch26)

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10-15-2005 05:29 PM  12 years agoPost 18
DRUMMER

rrApprentice

Dover, UK

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I am flying alone at the moment [but joining some guys soon hopefully] hence the lack of experienced local knowledge and a heavier starter to try...I will go with the loose plug idea for now......

thanks
drummer.

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10-15-2005 05:33 PM  12 years agoPost 19
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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I was also happy with my TorqueMaster-90 on 12 volts for turning over my 50's for a couple of years. Then I got a Fury Extreme with a YS91. 12 Volts just doesn't do it.

I still use the same starter but now run it on 16 cells CP1700 (they were handy) and all is good now and the starter is not complaining.

Wolfgang

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10-15-2005 06:10 PM  12 years agoPost 20
AlanR8

rrKey Veteran

Saddleworth near Manchester (UK)

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I use a Dynatron running 12 Volts and it starts my YS 91 with NO problems. Rick has a cheapo starter that he was assured would crank his 91 C-Spec. It doesn't!

He uses my Dynatron for the first start of the day, again on 12 volts no probs. After that el cheapo does the job!

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