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HomeAircraftHelicopterBeginners Corner › Buddy boxes - revisited
08-01-2005 10:52 PM  13 years agoPost 21
donlynn

rrKey Veteran

New Zealand

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Gidday

Bob,
Sorry for the code ,we didn't get to the store much where I grew up

One crash height approx equals -
The Height lost or consumed it takes to loose control, realise this, panic, & recover.
In my experience the time taken to reach max vertical speed during loss of control is surprisingly short.

Regards Don

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09-15-2005 12:04 PM  13 years agoPost 22
fliers1

rrNovice

Lockport, NY

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Even after the testimonial below, I'm puzzled as to why no one showed even any curiousity. I mistakenly thought that perhaps members of the RC helicopter industry would show a tiny bit of interest. I guess sales of helis must be going through the roof. Oh well, their loss, not mine. lol

Take care,
CCR


Buddy Boxes - Revisited
I have to chime in and tell you al of my experience on this subject. First a little bit about the RC hobby and myself. I have always had an eye for RC Heli’s but never had any exposure to the hobby. Last July I bought a used Raptor 50 and met with an experienced Heli guy at the local field to check it over for me. He set it up, checked it over, then started to teach me to fly it. I was doing Ok until I tried hovering in my backyard and crashed it pretty good. It was way too tight an area for someone as new as me to be flying in. After this, it was suggested to me to pick up a trainer lane and learn to fly it and it would help in learning to fly the Heli. I got an already set up complete LT 40 Kadet. I started on the Buddy Box and could fly around at a fairly high altitude, but could not take off or land. This spring was a continuation of that. Between my work schedule and the wet spring we had here I didn’t get as much box time in as I would like to have. Now it’s been close to a year and I can’t fly on my own at this point. I have had a couple of different instructors on the box but never seemed to progress to the point I hoped to be at. I read a post from fliers1 (Clarence Ragland) here on RR stating that he could teach anybody to hover in a couple of hours. I PM’ed him and after a couple of exchanges Clarence stated he could not only teach me to hover but also fly on my own in 2 days. Talk about skeptical? I made arraignments and met up with Clarence to take him up on his theory. First day, the wind was blowing 20-25 mph and I figured the day to be lost. Not Clarence. He got me up in the air and started on taking off and landing approaches in the wind. We did this for a while then switched over to the Heli. First flight out, I’m a nervous wreck. My knees were knocking and the sweat was just pouring. I couldn’t even think about controlling the right stick. We ran a tank of fuel with me trying to hold a steady altitude and the nose straight ahead while Clarence controlled the right stick completely. The next thankful went a little better. I managed to be able to think about the right stick and control things somewhat with Clarence assisting when I got things out of whack. None of the flying with the Kadet or the Raptor was on the Buddy Box at all. I used my radio with my thumbs on the top of the sticks (something totally new to me) and Clarence reached under my thumbs and controlled the stick when needed (a technique Clarence calls the “Ragland Technique”). He was in continuous communication with me every minute I was in the air. This gave me a positive feel of how much stick movement was required for each move. At the end of the first day, I was further along in my flying than I have ever been in the last 10 months. I still had doubts about hovering and flying on my own by the end of the 2nd day so I extended my check out one at the hotel I was staying at more day.
Day 2, I started off with the Heli and hovered 2 tanks of fuel with minimal assistance on the second thankful. We switched back to the Kadet and did take off and landings one after another. The wind was not blowing as hard as the day before, but kept changing the direction it blew across the field. Clarence worked with me on all the different areas of flying effected by the changing winds. We worked on throttle control, upwind legs, down wind legs, landing approaches and take offs. At this point I was getting mentally overloaded and we took about a 2 hour break. I cooled down, re hydrated and freshened up back at the room then had a little lunch. I met Clarence back at the field and started right in on the Heli. It all started to come together. I hovered a couple of tankfulls with minimal assistance. I switched back over to the Kadet and did take off and landings one after another. He even had be do a dead stick when he didn’t believe me when I told him the crazy beeping was telling me I’m about to run out of fuel. Spent the rest of the afternoon practicing take offs, landings from both directions and figure eights crossing at midfield. Fired up the Heli one more time and hovered the entire tank without assistance. I was able to control it, fairly stable, and recognize and make corrections when needed. Mission accomplished! I was comfortable with all aspects of flying the Kadet and hovering the Raptor. I cancelled the 3rd night and went home.
Having been through both the Buddy Box and Clarence’s method, I have to say the “Ragland Technique” is far more effective. I would recommend getting hooked up with Clarence or anybody that teaches by this method to anyone that wants to learn how to fly either planes or Heli’s. It’s very effective with both. Since my instructional time with Clarence I have flown at my field a couple of times. I hooked back up to the Buddy Box the first time up to make sure I could get oriented at my field and be able to pick out my marks for landing. Next time out I completely went Solo. I flew 6 full tank of fuel all on my own. Then I fired up the Raptor and hovered 2 more tanks of fuel completely on my own. Everyone was impressed with what I had accomplished in 2 days. I even got a comment from a member that used to fly heli’s on how steady I was able to hover in place.
Sorry for such a long post, but I just had to share my experience with everyone. I’m not trying to knock the Buddy Box system at all here. After this experience I have to say it’s not the most effective way to learn. I have seen a number of folks at my field learning on Buddy Boxes and they are still on them.
Drop Clarence a note if you want to learn to fly (even in the wind). His e-mail is fliers1@aol.com
Here is a link to an AMA newsletter about Clarence teaching people that never touched a radio before.
http://www.amadistrictii.org/column...4-09 Column.pdf
Peter, now flying on my own!!!!!
Buddy Boxes - Revisited Buddy Boxes - Revisited

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09-15-2005 05:44 PM  13 years agoPost 23
Mike H

rrApprentice

Fraserburgh - Scotland

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I first started training heli pilots to hover without a buddy box connected until I had a 'running away' experience when one of the students lost it and he just turned into a stick stiring maniac.

Now I've realised that I can get them into a stable hover with the buddy box far quicker and safer. They are given Cyclic control only (ff9 allows that), then once they can hold stable postion I add in the other stick. It means that they get to hover a complete tankfull without having the additional lift off and landing experience which I leave till last. Avoids that wandering all over the field following a heli, kidding themselves that they have it under control.

Mike
Team QuickUK

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09-15-2005 05:59 PM  13 years agoPost 24
fliers1

rrNovice

Lockport, NY

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Where there is a will, there is a way. I've been teaching hovering and forward flight for over 20 years now and never, I repeat never have I used a buddy/box.

That's the trick...how to safely teach hovering to literally everyone, sim experience or not. I figure if I can do it so easily, others could. Thing is, I guess I would have to show/teach them my method. Anyone interested? I'm sure thousands of newbies around the globe would love the idea of having someone having the skills to teach them how to safely hover within an hour or two of such instruction. Funny thing is, haven't heard a peep out of the experienced heli pilot anywhere. Kinda makes beginners wonder how interested the experienced RC heli flier, including the industry really is in finding new and productive ways to significantly help beginners learn. Oh well.

Take care,
CCR

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09-15-2005 09:40 PM  13 years agoPost 25
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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fliers1 Instruction Offer
Well, from you last post, it sounds as if you haven't had any interest shown in learning to teach the way that you do..... but from one "Old Dog" to another, anything that would make me a better instructor cannot be all bad.....
I do some traveling in your area, from time to time, and would like to meet up with you to discuss your technique, if you wouldn't mind.......

Thanks, Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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09-16-2005 01:11 AM  13 years agoPost 26
fliers1

rrNovice

Lockport, NY

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Stan,
I will be more than happy to show you. If you could bring someone with you who doesn't know how to fly, I'll be glad to give her or him a gratis lesson on my Raptor 30.

I'm just trying to keep the hobby going.

Take care,
Clarence

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09-16-2005 01:05 PM  13 years agoPost 27
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Lesson........
Clarence,

I will do my best to bring someone with me.... and I will contact you the next time that I will be in your area.. (within a month)
Thanks for the offer and I am looking forward to meeting you....

There are a lot of new people out there looking for help..... and someone took me under thier "wing" (a long, long time ago!!!) to teach me, so it has been my turn for a while now...... and I am glad to see new faces joining on a regular basis.......

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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12-29-2009 11:36 AM  8 years agoPost 28
fliers1

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Lockport, NY

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12-31-2009 01:32 AM  8 years agoPost 29
sonnyhad

rrProfessor

Holland,Mi

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I see this thread is pretty old! I for one am looking forward to having someone help me with the buddy box. I sure did a lot of crashing last season and it would save me $$$$ and a lot of it! I should have bought stock in some blade company before the season!

Bald Pilots usually wear hats!

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12-31-2009 05:54 AM  8 years agoPost 30
rotaryfalcon

rrApprentice

S.E. USA

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I havent read all the earlier posts on this thread, so I may be repeating a lot of earlier stuff. Buddy boxing a heli is a challenge. I have taught a lot of plankers, it not a big deal. Helis hsve got to be set up very closely if not exactly the same from master to slave. The instructor has got to follow exactly the student, or be a real fast catch up. The best situation is the student have the master and the slave TX/box set up to their heli. If not a lot of time is wasted trying to get a seemless transition from master to slave. If not properly set up it can be a real ordeal for the instructor. I have been around a lot of great heli pilots that wont instruct because of this. I have instructed with my 9C linked to a compatible 4ch by carefully trimming the slave radio, as you are only using the gimbals. All was not exactly the same, but was so close as to make it do able. My advice is to get a compatible slave radio, spend the time to get it linked to your heli as closely as possible, and you will probably find a willing instructor.

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12-31-2009 11:56 PM  8 years agoPost 31
sonnyhad

rrProfessor

Holland,Mi

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Spektrum/Jr radios only use the sticks, no set up when set to master slave in the master radio. No need for the slave to have any set up what so ever. Or what ever the correct terminology is in the master radio. I use a dx7, from what I understand a dx7se will not work for training but any other Spektrum/Jr radio will.

Bald Pilots usually wear hats!

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01-01-2010 01:00 AM  8 years agoPost 32
rotaryfalcon

rrApprentice

S.E. USA

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Thats pretty much true with the Futabas I have used. There seems to be a non linear cross over when using a basic box that most(our) clubs have. If one is using the basic Bbox you have to trim it every time(if it is common use). What I am saying, if you have your own box set up for your heli, it pretty much guarantees a fellow flier will help you out. I was learning(being backed up actually) precision aerobatics and was blessed to have my own two 7C Futabas. So much better because you cant tell the difference between the TX you fly solo and when you BB. If you can borrow or scrounge another DX7, that would be the best option.

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01-01-2010 05:56 AM  8 years agoPost 33
rokiehelli1983

rrApprentice

fayetteville, ga-usa

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currently looking for good instructor to teach me to have fun
hey I am around the atlanta area and really want to learn how to have fun flying my raptor 50 v2 i am doing ok on some hover but would like to find a good instructor willing to help out around here.

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01-01-2010 11:44 AM  8 years agoPost 34
fliers1

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Lockport, NY

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If there are instructors willing to help teach people to fly helis on the buddy-box, they should post their contact info here.

I've tried to pass on my method of non-buddy-box instruction locally, but the very few heli fliers here didn't show any interest at all.
I've been able to teach most people to learn to hold a sustained hover within an hour and I'm 100% certain that most if not all experienced heli pilots could easily learn how to do the same thing, that is if they really wanted to.

I teach people to learn to hover electic helis indoors when we can't fly outside. I use my helis for both indoors and outdoors, even if just to give people a taste of heli flying.

fliers1

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01-01-2010 08:46 PM  8 years agoPost 35
sonnyhad

rrProfessor

Holland,Mi

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I seem to have trouble with orientation doing circuits and can see the buddy box, helping out a ton!

Bald Pilots usually wear hats!

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01-01-2010 10:13 PM  8 years agoPost 36
fliers1

rrNovice

Lockport, NY

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Forunately, there are other easier, faster, and safer ways than buddy-box training.

fliers1

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08-09-2010 01:15 PM  8 years agoPost 37
fliers1

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Lockport, NY

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08-09-2010 03:23 PM  8 years agoPost 38
Heli0228

rrApprentice

Ripplemead, Va

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Buddy Box
When I am at the field I put in more hours on the buddy box than I do flying my own stuff, and I do not mind to do it, flying is flying. I have the student stat off with a simulator for at least 10hours so they can get a hover down. When most students come to the field they find the real heli is better to fly than the sim is so they have fun with it. Then when we start to fly foward I show them what I want and then tell them what to do as they move through a circut. I am always talking to the student sometimes I even get loud sometimes if I need more power, but I can just about take it over any time even in a hover as of today my students are doing great. When you are on the box you have to talk all the time to the student. ALso I use JR radio's and when you use the plink slave then set the master to Plink(spectrum) or just master(Jr) then you have no programing problems. I you have problems send me a PM or post a link I am on here all the time.

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08-09-2010 03:38 PM  8 years agoPost 39
fliers1

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Lockport, NY

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I tried using the buddy-box for teaching hovering, but found it much too stressful for both student and myself. But if using the buddy-box works for others, that's fine.

Because I don't use the buddy-box, I'm able to hand the tx to anyone and usually have them safely hovering within an hour. What I like is that it's so easy to get people into the hobby/sport and they don't need any sim time at all. That way, it's very easy to promote the hobby. I've had hundreds of people either curious, or already has a heli, or just wanted to give it a try but say they can't afford to buy. It doesn't matter if they say they can't afford to buy, I will still offer them the opportunity to fly my heli.

As I said, to each his own. Also, I can use the same method to teach forward flight, although I did find using the buddy-box useful for teaching forward flight.

Clarence C. Ragland
http://www.abchobbyshop com (add dot)

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08-13-2010 05:10 PM  8 years agoPost 40
dela

rrApprentice

Stillwater Oklahoma

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Fliers1,

Peep!

I'm teaching someone to fly heli's using a buddy box right now. Both hovering and forward flight. I'm always open to new ideas. So, can you point me to a detailed description of your method so I can try it as well?

Ron D.

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