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HomeOff Topics › Who/what sank the Kursk?
05-09-2005 02:26 AM  13 years agoPost 1
Peter65

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Roxby Downs, South Australia.

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http://www.news.com.au/story/0,1011...6-38200,00.html

Conspiracy theorists must be having a ball. But this is plausable when you do a bit of research on the number of times US and Soviet subs had had a coming together under the ocean waves. Even surface ships and Soviet subs had collided in years past.

Just goes to show the little we are told. How close was WWIII if this is the truth?

Can anyone verify the US wiped $10,000,000,000 in Russian debt after this?

Laughing at yourself will lengthen your life. Laughing at me will shorten it...

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05-09-2005 01:14 PM  13 years agoPost 2
fritzthecatrrKey Veteran - Virginia Beach, VA - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A 'Former' official.
A 'French' documentary.
The Russians 'drilled' the hole.

Enough said.

Fritz


'Send Money, Women and Guns!'

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05-09-2005 01:44 PM  13 years agoPost 3
Camp

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One can only speculate but if you believe it, your a "Conspiracy Theory nut" and your dismissed as such. Regardless if this is true Govt controlls the media and the media controlls what the majority believe. Example of such, with the knowledge of aero dynamics in this forum, who can believe the NTSB's explanation of TWA 800? A 747 with it's entire nose removed and the center of gravity now midway between the wing trailing edge and the tail can climb 2000 ft? "That wasn't a missle you saw it was a lapse in the laws of physics. Or that journalist who got a sample of the seat cloth and found it tested positive for petin (spelling?). He disappeared, no one even asked questions because the media said he went "underground to avoid authorities" nevermind that he had already been to court. His wife doesn't even know where he is. (bottom of the ocean is my guess). Sorry for the rant, I had friends on 800 it changed the way I view the whole conspiracy theory thing.

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05-09-2005 01:52 PM  13 years agoPost 4
Peter65

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Roxby Downs, South Australia.

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Anyone who think this impossible is pretty narrow minded. I neither believe nor disbelieve but I am not going to dismiss it as total crap.

It's no secret that the US and Soviet have played cat and mouse for the last 50 odd years. Enough near misses have occurred. The US did raise half a Soviet sub after all off Hawaii didn't they. Most would have considered Clancy's HFTRO a myth too when infact it was based to an extent on truth.

I guess the sub last year never hit the side of an under water mountain either?

Anything is possible.

Laughing at yourself will lengthen your life. Laughing at me will shorten it...

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05-09-2005 02:17 PM  13 years agoPost 5
Camp

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I always thought only lemmings follow blindly, I was wrong.

edit for spelling (what could I have possible spelled wrong here?????, oh well.)

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05-09-2005 03:49 PM  13 years agoPost 6
mfendley

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Saint Marys, GA

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As a 21 year veteran of the US Submarine fleet, I can tell you that if we fired one of our torpedos at a Russian submarine, it would have been much more damaged than the Kursk was.

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05-09-2005 04:37 PM  13 years agoPost 7
shaggy

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mfendley,

My thoughts exactly.

Brooks

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05-09-2005 04:57 PM  13 years agoPost 8
Tmblewd

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Phoenix, AZ

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you need to read the book called Rising Tide. It explains the Russian side of the Cold War from Subs. It also explains what actually took down the Kursk. The fuel from the torpedo, hydrogen peroxide

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05-09-2005 05:05 PM  13 years agoPost 9
F1 Carbon

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Perth, Scotland

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My neighbour who is a saturation diver was on the dive team that recovered the security and launch codes from the sub. Although instructed only to go in through a strictly tight access point they did have a look at the damaged section and although not an expert on explosions did comment it looked self inflicted.

He did say that if the Russians had pulled in the expertise of their dive team who stood off the stricken sub for a number of days early enough they beleive they could have got a connection onto the escape hatch.

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05-13-2005 04:22 AM  13 years agoPost 10
sixeven

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Ft. Myers Florida

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!!!!!!!

I swear there are people who will try to make a conspiracy out of anything! They also seem to be always filming in France!

Off the top of my head I can think of 5 absolutely moronic French conspiracy films that have come out in the last few years. All of which have about as much fact as a fat girl explaining how much she diets and exercises!

According to this stupid theory the hull of the sub had an inward facing hole the same size as a torpedo and that is because we have some sort of "gopher" like weapon that bores small holes in subs.

First the obvious..... What possible reason would exist for a torpedo to make a small hole? Torpedos explode to make BIG holes. Why would we design a torpedo to make a small puncture wound????

Secondly... "The torpedo is designed to penetrate the outer metal hull with it's special tip design" OK, as great as that might sound....all modern subs do not actually have an outer metal hull. In fact, most subs are coated with a fairly thick rubber like material which is designed to dampen sound and sonar. I have read that some Russian subs can be covered in the material up to 14" thick.

I guess our MOLE torpedo carefully chewed through the outer rubber coat to then carefully bore a small hole into the hull to make a really annoying leak!

Thirdly... and perhaps most importantly...most modern torpedos do not usually even strike a ships or subs hull. They are detonated by proximity sensors when in the best destructive range of the target. It is the relative water pressure differential that destroys the target not the actual explosive directly. (kind of like nuclear weapons that detonate above the ground rather than upon hitting it)

SiXeVeN

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05-13-2005 04:46 AM  13 years agoPost 11
Salty

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St. Augustine

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While I am not aloud to expound to terribly much I will correct some of the mistakes that are common knoledge that can be looked up in any Janes manual. typically speaking while alot of the subs do have "rubber" coatings they arnt 14" thick too much weight the old out of commision subs did but that was back in the day. (heck most of the russian fleet of subs is out of commision go check out a current janes from the library, they dont have enough money to run them or to pay the crews). Technology in mounting equipment has greatly increased along with precision balancing on rotating assemblys.

Most of the russian subs do have two hulls, our torps are designed to fight that...typically the desiel subs only have one hull.

finally, proximity sensors in torpedo design is actually a back up to try to inflict any damage on the perspective target...it is not used as a primary kill (unless its a ship fired torp thats a different story) aircraft launched torps while they do have prox sensors on them are designed to make a direct hit in a certain place....

and thats all I can say about that...ask me in another 10 years when all of it has been declassified and just for the record...I hunt em' for a living

I dont think that there was foul play in this one...the russians deffinatly screwed up with lack of maintence and lack of training and when the US offered to help we were politley told to go piss up a rope Not like another particular country hasnt reverse engineered all of the technology anyway

Unfortunatly I know lots more about this than I can say...so I'll be sitting here chuckling at the "theorist's"

Ask your Doctor if getting off your ass is right for you.

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05-13-2005 04:55 AM  13 years agoPost 12
Peter65

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Roxby Downs, South Australia.

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Come on we wont tell anyone you told us

For the record just because I started this thread don't mean i believe what I posted. It was just a story that popped up on a news sites here.

Although i do love a good conspiracy

Laughing at yourself will lengthen your life. Laughing at me will shorten it...

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05-13-2005 05:07 AM  13 years agoPost 13
sixeven

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Ft. Myers Florida

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rotorpsyco,

You sound like a Navy man so you probably have more info than me but I swear I recently read differently about how torpedos did their damage.

According to the what I read...

Torpedos against surface ships are designed to explode upon impact with a shaped charge that penetrates the ships hull.

Torpedos against other subs are designed to explode "in proximity" to the sub but does not actually contact it. In a mechanism not unlike depth charges the torpedo explodes in close proximity to the sub and the resultant immense water pressure wave "crushes" the subs hull.

Apparently when a "firing solution" is calculated against a target the warhead is programmed for the specific type of explosion required and the best range of detonation.

Is that incorrect?

BTW the article was the same one that spoke of the Russian subs having very thick (14") rubber coats....as you said, it sounds like that was old information. Thus, the torpedo info might be wrong as well?

SiXeVeN

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05-13-2005 05:07 AM  13 years agoPost 14
Salty

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St. Augustine

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who dosent like a good conspiracy????

(it was the one armed man!!!!)

Ask your Doctor if getting off your ass is right for you.

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05-13-2005 05:16 AM  13 years agoPost 15
Salty

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St. Augustine

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your right on some of it....But I should have specified...as far as the prox sensors go, it depends...air certified torps the prox is a back up...
surface ship torps they are alot bigger and deliver a bigger punch
therefore can be used as a either or....Ideal situation...you wanna park the torp inside... all depends on the weapon tho....surface ship torps are the ones designed to "break the backbone"...they are typically the prox type, by removing the water from under the ship the keel effectivy disinegrates. as far as prox on a sub....well lets just say they are pretty resilient to water pressure changes...goal is to break that tube and let water pressure do the rest

Ask your Doctor if getting off your ass is right for you.

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05-13-2005 05:16 AM  13 years agoPost 16
Peter65

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Roxby Downs, South Australia.

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Sixeven.. What's your reference material?

I was of the understanding at a torpedo will explode under the keel of surface ships there by breaking their back. This is why you see the ship lift up out of the water pretty much parted in the middle.

Sub hulls are made of high strength alloy steels which would most likely require a shaped charge to penetrate. The sudden pressure change would be the cause of a subs destruction. Although you could rattle them to death with proximity charges.

The Russian subs such as the Typhoon has a double hull and would likely take multiple torpedos to take one out.

Laughing at yourself will lengthen your life. Laughing at me will shorten it...

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05-13-2005 05:29 AM  13 years agoPost 17
Salty

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St. Augustine

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peter
well said, your right

I cant remember who but one of the navys constucted an entire hull and major components out of titanium

Ask your Doctor if getting off your ass is right for you.

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05-13-2005 05:47 AM  13 years agoPost 18
sixeven

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Ft. Myers Florida

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Peter65,

I believe I got the info from a magazine I picked up in the airport. (maybe not the most reliable source) It was basically a run down of the armed forces and the technology behind the weapons. I will have to look for it to confirm what I wrote because it appears I may have remembered the information completely backwards..... or the article was wrong

That is what I love about this site......you need to have your facts straight or someone will call you out.

It is refreshing to cut through the BS and get the real truth (even if it's your own BS)

SiXeVeN

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05-13-2005 06:04 AM  13 years agoPost 19
Peter65

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Roxby Downs, South Australia.

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I think you might be thinking of the Russian Alfa and Akula class. I know the Alfa was all titanium not so sure about the Akula?

The Alfa was or possibly still is the deepest diving and fastest of the military manned subs, made possible because of the titanium which is a very difficult material to work with.

Laughing at yourself will lengthen your life. Laughing at me will shorten it...

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05-13-2005 06:16 AM  13 years agoPost 20
sixeven

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Ft. Myers Florida

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rotorpsyco

I think this is what you were thinking of....

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/705.htm

Liquid metal reactor cooling....YIKES!

SiXeVeN

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