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HomeAircraftHelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › Are white tail gears out yet and how much?
05-08-2005 02:38 AM  13 years agoPost 1
rappyfly

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Toronto, ONT

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Open tail gear is changing from black gear to gery and what is the next color?

I was our flying my fury ball EX today and did some thing "wild" and heared some thing like "kakakakaaaa." Heli went piro crazy, cut hold and did a piro-flip auto under emergency within 30 feet hight. As quote by one of best pilot "it was one of the most amazing save he saw."

I have the gear replced by Chris at Minair right before Toledo show, and has about 25 flights. I use light tail blade and did not use balde to cut some wood stick while at the field so it shall stay. Am I right?

Any way, I know the black one is not trusted. Now I am showing and proving you the gery gears are garbage too. I hope all Minair guys use open box shall fly gentle and safe.

If anyone make better gears I will definitely buy them and sure you will make good profit.

D



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05-08-2005 02:41 AM  13 years agoPost 2
Hawk4flyer

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Deland,Florida

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Is that on an extreme??

Or a Spectra?

Give Tim a call, he'll fix it.

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05-08-2005 03:30 AM  13 years agoPost 3
carcrasher

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east coast

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Does it matter? Tail gear failure on any of those two helis would suck any which way. I'm glad you were able to save it. what were you doing when it went out on you?

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05-08-2005 04:04 AM  13 years agoPost 4
rappyfly

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Toronto, ONT

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Just some thing new which i do with choas.

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05-08-2005 04:14 AM  13 years agoPost 5
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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I can see a dent in the root of a tail blade in the picture, what caused that? Chris

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05-08-2005 05:34 AM  13 years agoPost 6
cdrking

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Seattle

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3dhelipilot1

How do you set the mesh when you send the WHOLE tail gearbox into MA? THEY set the mesh.

Please explain what you are talking about.

Jeff

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05-08-2005 05:53 AM  13 years agoPost 7
fitenfyr

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Port Orchard, Washington

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Hmmm...
Looks like the gears on my Bergen Gasser after yesterday.

I like my old metal gear tailbox.

Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...

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05-08-2005 02:06 PM  13 years agoPost 8
heliplus

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Santa Fe, N.M

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black, grey, and Now???
Well it happened sooner then we thought....When is MA going to wake up and make the machined gears???or do we first have to try the next color molded ones Blue???or is it Red or green or brown ? I heard they were going to go with the machined gears as an option guess that fell throught the cracks.. Ofcoarse all the MA garus will be blaming everything including poor gear mesh to hard flying etc etc etc. ( as they did with te black gears which failed ) I for one will stick to my metal Gear Box with the metal gears....SAD

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05-08-2005 02:34 PM  13 years agoPost 9
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida US

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Actually
Actually, most of the gears are pinned and usually considered to be NOT user servicable (mine are pinned not set screwed). There was talk of using set screws in the Spectra-G with new shafts but I never heard if this was actually implemented.
I'm glad the model was not damaged and you can get it back in the air quickly. There could be several reason why the gears would fail other than poor quality. If the tail was previously ground struck or if a piece of hard debris went through the gear box, it is possible to take out a tooth and have it not be apparent. In flight the tooth fails, departs, and loads the rest of the gear unaturally so the other teeth come off also. Now, I'm not saying that happened as I certainly have no way of knowing but it is possible. I have also seen the steel gears in the closed box do the same thing as here but when I rebuilt the TR it worked fine and I never took out gears again. Please I know I don't KNOW what happened, it could just be a parts failure with no fault of the pilot but this is the first I have heard of a gray gear failure and will follow it closely. Is there a possibility of previous damage?
I have seen the MA Team pilots just thrashing these TRs without failure since the introduction of the gray gears so I suspect this may be an isolated incident, and surely hope it is. I have two open boxes and they have been flawless since I put them on several months ago so I have a vested interest in them working correctly since I probably couldn't do a pirouetting flipping auto from 30 feet and I really don't want to rebuild for no good reason.
I looked back at the black gear issue and cannot find where anyone actually said pilot error, it just took a little time to figure out what the problem was, and it might have been a user issue,. Turned out it was not, it was a manufacturing issue, not design or inspection problem as the only way to check each gear was Xray and neither the gear maker nor MA had the ($$$) equipment to do it. The process was changed and now statistical sample gears are destroyed to check for quality issues. MA will pay close attention to this incident,
By the by, machined gears are not a panacea, they fail also under specific conditions including the ones I mentioned above. If a rock getts fodded through the TR, it will peel a tooth off a machined gear just as quickly as a cast gear.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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05-08-2005 03:48 PM  13 years agoPost 10
carcrasher

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east coast

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I don't get it. Didn't MA pour sand thru the gears while it was spinning at high speed. There wasn't a video of it so it's hard to say if it really happened. They also stuck a 2x4 while it was spinning and the video shows the blades giving out first. Were those gears used in the video special gears just for the video? What speed was the tail spinning in the video? I don't think anyone could say. I would like to know if these gears(black and gray) were cycle tested. What tempature extremes were they put through?

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05-08-2005 04:02 PM  13 years agoPost 11
JKL

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Florida

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For the record...A machined gear made from the same material as a PROPERLY injection molded gear of the same material will NOT be any stronger. I think MA has done a good job of handling the tail rotor issue considering some people can break an anvil and complain about it! Nothing is bullet proof when pushing the envelope. Not busting anyones chops here...just stating facts.

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05-08-2005 04:02 PM  13 years agoPost 12
heliplus

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Santa Fe, N.M

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"I have seen the MA Team pilots just thrashing these TRs without failure since the introduction of the gray gears so I suspect this may be an isolated incident, and surely hope it is."

This was also said several months ago when the Black molded gears were introduced. MA claimed all there test pilots flew the heck out of them and had no failures even when we " novices" asked for machined gears....MaYBE THEY AREN'T A PANACEA however what is the harm in trying them. If the machine gears also fail, maybe the fault lies
elsewhere. I am sure Hirobo knows how to make molded gears. Yet they choose to use machine gears. There must be a reason don't you think????.. After all, I feel the Fury is on par with Hirobo as far as quality and technical design so why not go for it and put us all at ease to make the transition to the open case. I also know of another incident although I was not there. It happened on the oppsite coast> One of MA's pilots Henry Caldwell had the GREY ones blow very recently..Funny no one said anyting about it!!!!! As I said...I will stick to the metal gears in the metal case...with the hope MA finally abandons this ingma and starts producing machined gears.

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05-08-2005 04:05 PM  13 years agoPost 13
rappyfly

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Toronto, ONT

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From what i have seen on the test video. The electric motor might not have enough torque to destroy the gears. The rotor head has greater inertia. To me, the video did not prove the gear is strong & cerate much confidence.

There are other failures on the gears but it among the MA reps. So, I might the first make it pubic.

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05-08-2005 04:18 PM  13 years agoPost 14
JKL

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Florida

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After further examination of the 1st and 3rd picture it looks to me like the mesh was not quite tight enough. I am looking at the front and rear alignment of the whole gear. Hard to explain. I think this should be the first area to consider. I could tell better by holding it in my hands of course. This is based on the ( great pictures ) by the way .

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05-08-2005 04:58 PM  13 years agoPost 15
vols77

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Hills of Tennessee

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Setting Gear Lash
I have been looking at my open tail boxes and I am trying to figure out how to set the gear mesh.

The gear is pinned in place to the tail shaft.

So from what I figure, you would have to shim the gear over to get a tighter mesh.

Has anybody actually tried to set the mesh on the open tail box?

I haven't and both my open tail boxes were assembled by MA.


Rick

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05-08-2005 05:18 PM  13 years agoPost 16
vols77

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Hills of Tennessee

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Thanks for the info.

I am new to MA and never had the old tail box....

Rick

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05-08-2005 06:11 PM  13 years agoPost 17
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida US

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OK,
The gear lash on the gray gears is adjustable on the input side. Remove the TR and loosen the top and botton set screws and adjust the lash. This usually only has to be done once, immediately after the gears break in and then they stay set.
As far as replacing a roll pin, there is nothing magic or even particularly difficult about it except when you don't have a fixture to do it in, sometimes a less experienced modeler will bend the pin and then it doesn't seat correctly. I have seen one where the TR shaft was burred so badly while trying to insert the pin by hand that the shaft had to be replaced. If you can do it easily, there is not trick to it. I would use a new roll pin every time, but that's just me.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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05-08-2005 07:15 PM  13 years agoPost 18
heliplus

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Santa Fe, N.M

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JKL..."After further examination of the 1st and 3rd picture it looks to me like the mesh was not quite tight enough. I am looking at the front and rear alignment of the whole gear. Hard to explain"

You must be Hodini....If you can look a those pictures and tell gear mesh your in the wrong business...setting the mesh on these gears is not rocket science..Its wildly known that molded gears are out of round not like a machined gear which is true round. Therefore your going to have to set the gear mesh up to the high spot to avoid binding thus forcing perhaps as much as 80% of the rotation to be looser then you like. You would have to set the gear mesh up so it actually binds not to be properly meshed. It all boils down to how much out of round these gears are. ( you mesh the teeth to something either the loose side or the tight side )As far as the same material as the molded gears...I'm no expert but my friend is that I fly with . Lets make the assumption that people making molded gears and machined gears have access to the same spec material( this Assumption is in error right from the start ) because not all delrin type material is available in pellet form ).The molding process generates porosity in the finished product and machine process starts with nearly perfect material. Therefore you can't make the conclusion that a molded gear can have the same strength as a machine gear ( porosity is almost non existant in a extrusion compared to the pellets forced into a mold ) As I said before
either machine and try it...or stick with the metal gears in the metal case. I for one am glad I bought my friends case.

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05-08-2005 08:12 PM  13 years agoPost 19
kthane

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Pensacola

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nevermind

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05-08-2005 10:58 PM  13 years agoPost 20
JKL

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Florida

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Heliplus,
Nevermind.... you WIN!
By the way, if you want machined gears, the Hxrobx gears will fit.
Good luck.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › Are white tail gears out yet and how much?
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