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HomeAircraftHelicopterThunder TigerOther › 90SE Glitching problem
05-07-2005 03:45 PM  13 years agoPost 21
Jeff Swartz

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Ohio

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Looks like Dino is the winner!!!

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05-07-2005 05:30 PM  13 years agoPost 22
Dino Spadaccini

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USA

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ya baby
gald to see that the heli is on the right track

RIP Roman JR
Capt USA Align Factory Team Align - Conquer Your heart
Team Futaba

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05-07-2005 05:55 PM  13 years agoPost 23
Agilefalcon

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Fort Worth, Texas

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I had a glitch in my Eagle II EX that I fought for 2 years. In the end I found it. It was the swash-plate. It was a stroke of luck really. I was oiling the slider and got a whole mess of oil on the swash plate. The next couple of flights were glitch free.

I changed the swash-plate and haven't had a glitch since.

Just thought I'd throw that out there for you.

Chris Berardi
Team BobbyJack's Hobbies

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05-07-2005 06:20 PM  13 years agoPost 24
Comanche Man

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U.S.A.

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hey, i think that could be my problem also, my 601 tail gyro is right their also.

Fear my name on Xbox live

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05-07-2005 11:27 PM  13 years agoPost 25
Peter_H

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Ontario, Canada

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False alarm...
Awww NUTS.

Took it out this morning to fly around a little further out and WHAM, yesterday nothing (in the tight confines of my back yard) but today it was worse than ever!

So, I started going down the list. East Coast Extreme still may be the winner. After going through all the easy things to try, I thought it was time to look at bearings.

When I took the 90SE out the very first time, the metal fan (with clutch attached) unscrewed from the engine shaft and wedged up into the clutch bell while trying to start it. It was jammed so tight that I couldn't turn it over with the starter or cordless drill. At the time, I removed the engine and spotted the loose fan and tightened it propery. Prior to that I hadn't flown it. I took Dino's advice to see if the hex start thingy would turn freely and it sounded like sand was in it????? Sure enough, took the clutch bell/bearing set up out and the small bearing in the bell (where the clutch drove up into) was not turning freely at all! My fault for not looking at that earlier.

So the saga continues. This is quite possilby the cause of my glitching problem but I will let you know after change the bearing and I try it. Sorry for the false hope as I was really hoping that was it.

Will let you all know as soon as I change the bearing and reassemble.... Peter

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05-10-2005 12:44 AM  13 years agoPost 26
ornatep

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San LUis Obispo, CA USA

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have we tried another model to rule the radio out? good luck

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05-10-2005 02:59 AM  13 years agoPost 27
Peter_H

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Ontario, Canada

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Hi ornatep.

My radio is a JR 8103 and I use it to fly 8 other aircraft. I am confident it is working properly as I use it often with no glitches in any other aircraft. In fact, this is the very first time I've ever had a problem. My new bearings are ordered and will arrive tomorrow. I'll be installing them, re-assembling the helicopter and testing as soon as possible.

There are a number of things you guys have suggested that I haven't tried yet. If after changing the bearings does not work, I'll continue going down the list.

Thanks again everyone for the continued help. I'll keep you all posted!

Peter.

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05-16-2005 01:57 AM  13 years agoPost 28
Comanche Man

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U.S.A.

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Hey, I might have solved mine. What I did

Grounded rear tail servo, collective pitch, both frames all to a common ground.

Found that carbon base plate was touching the engine heat so I made sure that it was no longer touching.

Got a base loaded antenea.

Moved gyro mount away from collective.

Put on blingy landing gear and fuel lines.

Flew one 2/3 tank and no glitch, but will fly more and if glitch still present will keep you guys posted.

Fear my name on Xbox live

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05-16-2005 05:22 AM  13 years agoPost 29
Peter_H

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Ontario, Canada

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Hi again guys.

Well, I test flew the 90 SE with the new bearins and the glitch is still there. I also changed channels from 18 to 25, glitch still present.

Hey Comanche Man, how did you ground the frames and stuff together? This would be similar to Andreas's and Flying Kiwi suggestions of earthing the carbon boom supports. That's the next thing I may be trying. Is there any pictures out there showing this?

This is what Flying Kiwi said in an earlier post;
To earth the boom to the main body, I’ve drill a 1.5mm hole in the boom at the end of the main boom holder, (on the header tank side) have used a short peace of clear coated wire and small crimps soldered on. Attached to boom with a very short screw. Then attached the wire to the closest m3 bolt going into the main frame. Will know the result on the weekend.
Will keep trying! Peter.

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05-17-2005 12:01 AM  13 years agoPost 30
Dino Spadaccini

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USA

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try this
I have looked in your gallery and I see that you have no pic of the tail so look into this the tail clamp is it tight and if so did it cut into the boom if it did wrap a piece of tape around it then put the clamp back on don’t tight to much as you will crack the boom. Ok now take off the carbon fly bar stiffener you have on the heli and fly it with out that do this before you earth the heli some other stuff to look at the lower plate is on and not rubbing against anything and if you have a glow extension make sure its not grounding out at all on the frames

RIP Roman JR
Capt USA Align Factory Team Align - Conquer Your heart
Team Futaba

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05-17-2005 12:20 AM  13 years agoPost 31
Comanche Man

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U.S.A.

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hey, all i did is take some of those crimp on connectors, they have a small circle of metal and you put the wire in a small circle and crimp it on their and then you take the bolt of whatever you are grounding and then slip that throuth the other hole.

Someone else can probably explain it better.

Fear my name on Xbox live

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05-17-2005 12:59 AM  13 years agoPost 32
Peter_H

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Ontario, Canada

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Thanks guys.

Today I tried it again with a new switch harness, then a different battery, then moved the charging jack. Still glitching.

I also tried routing the antenna forward instead of backwards. Still glitching.

I also tie wrapped the hex starter receiver as it would spin when the engine ran. I could easily stop it with my fingers, but after starting, I tightened the tie wrap so it wouldn't spin. Still glitching

I loosened the tail boom and pulled it back about 1/8 of an inch (someone suggested this earlier) and re tightened. Still glitching.

Hey Dino. I did notice a bit of marking on the tail boom. I will try that next. I was careful when tightening it but will wrap tape around it and try again. Next I will try with the flybar stiffeners off. The lower carbon plate is clear of everything and tight. I had it off at one time and no change.

Thanks for the explanation Comanche Man. I will try that after the above.

Keep the suggestions coming!!!!

Peter.

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05-17-2005 01:19 AM  13 years agoPost 33
Jeff Swartz

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Ohio

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Is this all happening at one field?

have you tried different channels, of another location? I remember you saying it didnt do it at home in your back yard.

I have seen some locations just have interferience on some channels.

Maybe its not your heli!

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05-17-2005 02:13 AM  13 years agoPost 34
rob10000

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Western Massachusettes

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I had a similiar problem. And I finally solved it, but bear with me, it's a long story!

It started with a new Raptor 50 with digital servos on everything but the throttle. In my case, it manifested itself by either jumping in collective, or twitching in the elevator channel. It was always a very transient glitch
I sent the S9451 on the pitch back to Futaba, and it came back with a clean bill of heath from Hobby Services. I swapped in other servos, but the glitch remained. I tried different recievers (tried standard and whip antennas), different switch harnesses, different battery packs, different voltage regulators, rerouted all the wiring and even plugged a 4.8 NiCd directly into the reciever. After a while it got to the point where I had swapped EVERYTHING but the gyro and rudder servo. Damn thing still glitched. It got to the point where I rarely flew it, because I never felt comfortabe with it
During all this, I bought alot of new digital servos hoping I would stumble on the one that was giving me issues. This ment that my Raptor 30 was getting the hand me down digitals. (it had all analogs, except the rudder). I also updated my old, dependable, 10 year old Concept 60. I was running what was top servos at the time, but at .14 and 44 oz/in, I felt I could retire them for throttle duty in the Raptors. I put digitals on the collective and cyclic. One day, I noticed the Raptor 30 glitching. And the Concept also had a slight twitch...
A-ha! the transmitter was now suspected. I tried a different 9CH, on the same channel. Glitching. Different channel, from 24 to 57.. Glitching. WTF...
Then it occured to me that the second Raptor only started acting wierd after I added digitals to it..Same with the Concept...
3 different machines with the same glitch, and it wasn't the transmitter or the frequency I use. The field I fly in had just been established, and many hours were logged with a scanner looking for possible interference problems during the survay, with negres, so that was ruled out.
I finally tried a PCM receiver in the worst glitching machine, and had my first trouble-free flights in the 6 months I have had it. I have always thought PCM just covered up glitches, and didn't solve anything, but I have changed my thinking with this experience. I think the modern digital servos create enough electrical noise to intermittantly interfere with the PPM signal under certain circumstances. My glitching was worse in the machine with all digitals, and in hind sight, I can see that as I added digitals to my other machines, the problem showed up in them as well.
I now have PCM receivers on the way for all 3 of my digital-equipped machines.

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05-17-2005 02:26 AM  13 years agoPost 35
Peter_H

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Ontario, Canada

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Hi Jeff.

I have tried two different channels (18 and 25) and different locations, (home, local park, two different flying fields).

Hey rob10000. Thanks for the detailed information. Looks like you had the same situation as I do now. I also had the mind set that PCM only masks the interferance. Even if I were to go to PCM, I would have wanted to eliminate the glitching first. BUT, hmmmm.

I will do the few things Dino suggested and then I'll borrow a PCM receiver of a friends to try.

Like you I rarely fly it. Just test, find out it still glitches and then put it away agian to try something else.

Thanks, I'll read your thread over again and take your advice. I appreciate your time in this matter.

Peter.

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05-17-2005 02:53 AM  13 years agoPost 36
ScareCrow_Delta

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Sebastian, FL

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Peter,
I have followed along with this thread since it started because I had a glitch similar to yours. It will only glitch at a certain point of pitch. I have tried everything, I mean everything. But one thing I missed was a carbon to metal interaction. The carbon pitch tray, is touching a bolt, the upper bearing block bolt on the right side as I increase the pitch. Adding the vibration from the engine, this metal-carbon contact caused the glitch that I was having. Check your carbon pitch tray and make sure it won't touch the upper bearing block bolts. Keep in mind to put enough clearance and consider vibrations.

EDITED:
I'm sorry,,, not the upper bearing block bolts but the starter shaft block bolts.

~~~~ Defy the laws of gravity....gracefully ~~~~

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05-17-2005 03:19 AM  13 years agoPost 37
AzHyper

rrKey Veteran

Peoria, Az.

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Peter - exactly what receiver are you using when experiencing the glitches? It would also help if you let us know exactly what servos, battery, switch, gyro, voltage meter, governor, batteries, etc you are using with your 8103.

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05-17-2005 02:10 PM  13 years agoPost 38
Dino Spadaccini

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USA

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ScareCrow_Delta
He is right but what i think he mean is the two bolts on the left and right side of the starter shaft bearing block that can be moved in and out if you have the metal washer in there the bolt heads will rub against the pitch tray as it move up and down look there good thinking ScareCrow_Delta

RIP Roman JR
Capt USA Align Factory Team Align - Conquer Your heart
Team Futaba

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05-17-2005 03:21 PM  13 years agoPost 39
Peter_H

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Ontario, Canada

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Hi ScareCrow_Delta.

I know exactly the area you mean (thanks too Dino). I had read on an earlier thread about the issue and when I built the helicopter, I replaced the large machined washers with thin flat ones. It still didn't leave much clearance, but it had been clear. Yes, it does seem to be bad at a certain area of pitch. I will definately look at it agian to see if there are any signs of touching, thanks.

Hey Cog.

I started with a JR 700 receiver and have tried the JR 600 as well (both FM). I started with Hitec 605BB servos and have since changed them to standard JR (537?) servos and now have a Hitec 5625 digital on the collective, Hitec 925?? on the tail rotor and Hitec 625's everywhere else. I started with a Hitec switch and am now using a JR. I don't use a governer. I started with a new JR 1100 mah battery and went to a JR 600 mah (for testing) and now have a SAFT 1200 mah, the latter made by me. I use a CSM SL420 gyro (which is the only electronic component I have not changed out). I use a VoltWatch LED meter which has been disconnected at various times. Every one of the above changes has not made a differance. Glitching was present from the very first flight.

I have noticed that if I hold the transmitter antenna parallel and at a certain position, I can get the glitching really going, but that makes sense if there is a problem.

I can't say how much I appreciate the time and help you guys are providing.

Peter.

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05-18-2005 02:45 AM  13 years agoPost 40
Bobby Watts

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Orlando, FL

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Peter,

I too had a similar glitch with my Rappy 90.

Mine was the same culprit every time. It would always be the starter shaft bearing and pinion bearing.

I see that you already replaced the starter shaft bearing, but did you look at the pinion bearing as well? What I noticed with mine was that when I screwed the nut down to clamp the bearing between the nut and the pinion, the nut started rubbing against the bearing alittle bit. When turned, this would create a high frequency vibration and cause all sorts of glitches.

What I did was lightly sand down the outer part of the nut with 400 grit sand paper, then when I tightened it, I only tightened it until it was snug.

I also ordered ceramic bearings for the starter shaft and pinion bearings just in case.

Hope this helps
Bobby

www.bobbywatts.com

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