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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › TX/RX Latency Test Results
02-22-2010 09:10 PM  10 years ago
the_sven

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east - US

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That's what I suspected. I'm not sure this is so much a factor of the 10X as much as is it just how PPM works...

Anyone want to theorize as to the increase in perceived resoultion that I am experiencing with the 10X other than the gimbals?

It might just be that simple I suppose.
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02-22-2010 09:14 PM  10 years ago
CoronaL

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Winnebago IL

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probably just how the radio feels "superior" is translating into a metal projection or psychological impression that it's resolution is better. I would say technically speaking, the DX7 should be better in most cases re: latency, and the resolution should be no different. So from that perspective, the DX7 should by all rights fly "better". However, owning a 12x I can say that the feel of that radio is so smooth and "luxurious" that perception could certainly be skewed .Randy!!! I am the liquor
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02-22-2010 09:39 PM  10 years ago
the_sven

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east - US

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That could always be the case but I own both and I have no reason to favor one over the other. I can fly them back to back and what I feel is that any input to the stick, even the smallest noticable off center is translated to the servos, more so than with the DX7.

I think since there is no reason for this based on signal architecture etc., leads me to believe its purely mechanical based (pots on the gimbals).
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02-23-2010 12:39 AM  10 years ago
Tyler

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Chicagoland area

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It has been some time since I have seen a 10x, but it could be a result of the 10x having more points available on the pitch and throttle curves. Perhaps the response just off of center is slightly more responsive because there is less blending between the assigned pitch curve points. The finer control might be realized. Just a theory.

Tyler
Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
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03-02-2010 03:21 AM  10 years ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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ATX SD-10G |92104 | 4 | 10| 10.3| 16.3| 10.3

Is this a fast radio or what?

TM
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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03-02-2010 03:27 AM  10 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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SD-10G IMPRESSIVE numbers!

Whoooo that really sets the bar!!
...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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03-02-2010 03:28 AM  10 years ago
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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Yes TMoore, those are great numbers. They give other manufacturers something to shoot for in the future. The high end radios are way behind !
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03-02-2010 03:32 AM  10 years ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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A9 = 52ms
SD10G = 10.3
Five times faster.
Think y'all can feel the difference between the two?

Just think, ATX underrated the radio in the ads. Sanwa doesn't lie.

TM
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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03-02-2010 03:32 AM  10 years ago
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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Man, you guys noticed the update before I could even post that I made it. Updated the charts to include the Futaba 8FG and the Airtronics SD-10G. Updated the table to include the SD-10G.

BTW, here is the pulse output scheme of the ATX 92104 receiver...

Notice how channels 1, 2, and 6 are evenly spread out across the 9 ms frame period. (Note: This can be alleviated by using channels 1, 4, and 7.)

Thanks,
John
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03-02-2010 03:33 AM  10 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Awesome John, thanks it's so nice to see actual data like this!...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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03-02-2010 03:37 AM  10 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Thanks again for the info, John. Speed is GOOD.

You weren't surprised by those numbers, were you?

And what am I supposed to do with this slow-as-molasses Stylus now?
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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03-02-2010 04:20 AM  10 years ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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I use channels 1, 4 and 7 for the CCPM channels.

TM
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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03-02-2010 05:19 AM  10 years ago
seattle_helo

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Seattle, WA USA

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Notice how channels 1, 2, and 6 are evenly spread out across the 9 ms frame period.
John, what is the significance of this? I'm a little slow, so I don't understand. Thanks.
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03-02-2010 07:22 AM  10 years ago
A.T.

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N.Z.

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As a heads up to readers, one fails to understand why TMoore does not indicate on all posts that he is a paid representative & flier for Airtronics, this in line with other brand USA RC System personnel. e.g. Bax & Krysta always disclose their Futaba status as do Mike Mayberry and Brendan Lugo disclose their Hitec RCD status.
In no way degrading the good work that JKos has done and continues, readers should still bear in mind that latency is a measure in really small numbers. As a rule it's hard for us to feel 20msec. The A9 with ~50msec latency is not slow but actually pretty good compared to FM/PCM radios. The FM/PCM radios range between 20msec for the superfast Stylus and 100-150msec for the Futaba 9c et al.
As a flier of RC models for in excess of 50 years, the most important factors are ease of use, reliability, back up and support. Talk of latency and etc has no meaning for 99.0% of users and even the remaining 1% of "expert fliers" have been unable to demonstrate the actual difference in real hands on time amongst the top systems at local fields....
Readers perhaps should also be aware of and google other threads:
e.g. Optima RX - Independent Comprehensive Range Test "The Hitec system worked as well as any I have tested and better than most. It performed better than the Futaba FASST, the Airtronics, the XPS and the JR low end receivers. It performed at least as good as my reference receiver, the JR AR7000."
"8FG, SD-10G or A9 what would you choose" a poll giving very interesting results.

Regards
Alan T.
[With one hat a Retail Sales/Distribution Manager selling Hitec, Futaba, JR, GWS, E-Sky, Thunder Tiger, Sanwa (aka Airtronics) etc. With a second hat, service manager for Hitec NZ]
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links
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03-02-2010 07:53 AM  10 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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With all due respect Alan most that frequent boards know this about Terry anyways. I see many rep and employess of X brand post things without specific tags etc, that does not matter as long as what is posted is sound. For records I am affiliated with Mikado, Kontronik, Scorpion and Thunder Power but really that makes no difference either IMO.

In regards to radios, I currently don't have an Airtronics, nor am I in any way affiliated with any radio manufacturer. I did however view videos on the SD-10G at other forum as well in pms and threads ask many questions of this radio as it interests me, in fact Terry told me to try what I like and make my own judegement, there was no insulting of other systems nor braging of the radio company he represents. I can tell you I have not witnessed Terry tell any lies or fabricate anything he has been to my knowledge a very honest member in all that I have witnessed myself sir.

In regards to latency, perhaps a percentage and maybe no one can feel or see what you say is irrelevant, I disagree with that statement from my own experience. I can tell you going from a 9C Futaba to a DX7 was a HUGE difference and I assure you I was not imagining things, recently to a Futaba 8FG was also an improvement as well, I am no pro but I also know that i do see and feel a difference in the latest tech hands down. The same can be said for many products out there not just radios.

I look forward to also trying this SD-10G as a friend ordered one for us to evaluate for ourselves. Given if the radio feels well it is nice to know non sponsored technical people such as Jkos provide us with accurate helpfull data to support this radios real specs and other radios to, to this I raise my glass to him, be well sir.
...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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03-02-2010 08:08 AM  10 years ago
Farrell

rrApprentice

Huntington Beach, CA

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"The A9 with ~50msec latency is not slow but actually pretty good compared to FM/PCM radios."

I would have to disagree, 50ms is a lot. Even for a beginner pilot.

That is 1/20th of a second. Movies are often recorded at 24fps (1/24th of a second per frame) because anything lower than that is visibly jagged and less-than-fluid. Frame rate and latency are different, but 1/24th of a second is still very noticeable... let alone 1/20th.

I have flown slow radios. It is a night and day difference.

-Farrell
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03-02-2010 08:27 AM  10 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

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I can tell you going from a 9C Futaba to a DX7 was a HUGE difference
50ms is a lot. Even for a beginner pilot. That is 1/20th of a second.
Completely agree. Latency matters, regardless of how skillful a pilot is or how subtle the differences seem to be. It may matter little during routine flying but it matters MUCH during a save.

Can I feel the difference between my 21 ms Stylus and my 11 ms SD-10G during everyday flight activities? Can't honestly say that I do -- but from my Futaba 7C to my Stylus, the 60 ms improvement was apparent BIGTIME.

And it's a comfort to know that at 60 mph, a 10 ms faster tx means 10½ inches more air between my bird and the tarmac for a save, if-when the shlit hits the fan. Moving up from the 7C to the Stylus bought me 6 flippin' feet.

That the other tx manufacturers are expending so much effort to minimize the irrefutable value of low latency -- for pros and novices -- speaks volumes.

Just my honest, experienced opinion. I'm sponsored by no one.
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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03-02-2010 12:02 PM  10 years ago
Damper

rrVeteran

Point Blank TX USA

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I have to agree with the 9C and DX7se for the lack of response of the 9C radio. I have both and it is a noticable difference. The DX7se is quicker compared to the 9C.Full Throttle Spooning Leads To Forking
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03-02-2010 12:38 PM  10 years ago
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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going from a 9C Futaba to a DX7 was a HUGE difference and I assure you I was not imagining things,
No doubt about that. What I believe Alan is saying is when comparing the recent batch of faster radios 99% of the hobby cannot tell the difference because it's almost imperceptible once you get to 50 ms and faster. I would venture to say that those that had the standard DX7 and switched to the DX7SE could not tell the difference.

The 9C is horrible for eCCPM and a good example of how bad things were when eCCPM and 3D flying kicked in. You can compare the 9C to any of the newer radios and say the same thing.

There are a lot of people using the 9C for airplanes and other models because latency is not an issue especially when you don't have the eCCPM mixing turned on.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep
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03-02-2010 12:43 PM  10 years ago
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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> I use channels 1, 4 and 7 for the CCPM channels.

I will retest with that setup. IF all three channels are updated each frame, then that would put the numbers at 4.2 min, 8.7 average, and 13.2 max. I will test to confirm. (Confirmed incorrect.)

- John
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