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HomeAircraftHelicopterComputer Flight SimulatorsReflex › Reflex v G3 ?
04-04-2005 03:12 AM  13 years agoPost 1
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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I got back from Toledo and after trying both Reflex and G3, I find that Reflex has more realistic control than G3 in both planes and helis.

Never mind the graphics, I'm talking ONLY about the dynamics.

Reflex shows ground effect while G2 & G3 don't (can see this in inverted hover). Also, it seems that the dymanics between G2 and G3 are pretty much the same.

I'm looking for other's input. Which do I get? I have G2 & CSM-10.

Wolfgang

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04-04-2005 03:16 AM  13 years agoPost 2
RCfan

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Longwood, FL USA

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Run a search in these forums, you'll find many different views on this topic. Personally, G3 had it's chance and the KE folks blew it by releasing a half-baked product and have intentionally delayed fixing critical sim issues over other less important ones. Get XTR, you will not be disappointed.

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04-04-2005 03:18 AM  13 years agoPost 3
Ted Toth

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Myrtle Beach S.C.

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Wolfgang did you feel a difference between the physics engine
as far as inertia when loosing altitude quickly
I mean the faster you fall the more collective you need to stop

.

You don't stop laughing because you grow old, you grow old because you stopped laughing.

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04-04-2005 03:31 AM  13 years agoPost 4
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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I didn't get much of a chance to explore that (others waiting in line to try it out) but needing more collective to stop the faster you fall is to be expected in real life.

Wolfgang

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04-04-2005 03:49 AM  13 years agoPost 5
ptarp

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IL

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This question has been more than beaten to death, and many people have spent many hours debating the issue.
Reflex shows ground effect while G2 & G3 don't (can see this in inverted hover)
G3 does have ground effect. Its easy to tell by getting a heli that can't hold an inverted hover at high alt (huey). It will descend untill it gets into the ground effect and then start to hover.


Philip

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04-04-2005 03:56 AM  13 years agoPost 6
AirWolfRC

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I was not able to see that on G3. If it's there, it's very mild.

Wolfgang

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04-04-2005 04:24 AM  13 years agoPost 7
spaceman spiff

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Tucson

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I like XTR in flying mode, but the autos are terrible. G3 does a much more true to life autos. ( i have both)

Both have ground effect. Could be choice of models (R50 tuned for XTR VS a 90 in G3) but there seems to be quite a bit more ground effect on G3 than reflex. I only rarely hover down low inverted, with the real model, but it does seem G3 is more true to life for ground effect.

for some reason my G3 will not produce shadows (i use a geforce 4000 series graphics on a 2.4 gig) runs XTR just fine.

the USB controller you get with G3 is very convenient, but using an old TX for reflex is not too bad. Just charge the TX once every couple weeks, and it is good to go...

both have good and bad points, hard to say which one i like better, but i don't feel like i wasted money getting both.

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04-04-2005 04:13 PM  13 years agoPost 8
RCfan

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Longwood, FL USA

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I like XTR in flying mode, but the autos are terrible. G3 does a much more true to life autos. ( i have both)
XTR isn't terrible with autos, it makes you work hard to get them right, so when you go out on the field and try it on the real thing, it will be easier. Are you sure G3 auto's are more true to life? Check out the two vids I made directly from each sim:

G3 auto (dom 90 - stock): http://runryder.com/gallery/19459/rfg3lands.zip

XTR auto (Raptor 50tuning - stock):
http://runryder.com/gallery/19459/XTR_Auto_Rap50tun.zip

Any sim that makes it easier to do things in sim than in real life will never teach you anything but bad habits. XTR is great at making things harder than real life, as any good sim should, even for experienced pilots, yet it's allows even beginners to learn easily.

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04-04-2005 05:37 PM  13 years agoPost 9
DS 8717

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Here wishing i was somewhere else

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The GF 4000 doesnt have shadows,i'm surprized you even like G3 on a bottom of the line video card like that. A good video card would make G3 much better.

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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04-04-2005 06:19 PM  13 years agoPost 10
Pete Niotis

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Grand Haven MI, USA

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Any sim that makes it easier to do things in sim than in real life will never teach you anything but bad habits. XTR is great at making things harder than real life, as any good sim should, even for experienced pilots, yet it's allows even beginners to learn easily.
The only thing that is easier on the sim is to bash the heli around because there is no "risk" or pucker factor. Take G3 and attempt to do a hovering circuit that keeps the same altitude and looks perfectly round or try doing a slow figure eight on the sim that keeps the same altitude and is symmetrical.

Practicing with this mindset on the sim is what will make the difference in real life. It's all about how much discipline and quality practice you put into it. Try and keep an FAI style hovering pirouette stationary vertical and horizontal in G3. Chances are if you can't do it well on the sim you will lack even more control in real life.

It's all about the mindset on how you choose to use the sim...for some it seems to be a game for others it is a learning tool.

I have many friends that are now using G3 that are top pilots, all of the feedback has come back positive with top ratings over G2.

Making a model harder to fly and/or unstable makes no sense to me. Helis are extremely difficult to learn, the proper mindset should be setup the heli as stable as possible that will only compliment and speed up the learning process. Lack of stability will just lead you on a wild goose chase on the sim and in real life.

Sorry for the long post

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04-04-2005 08:10 PM  13 years agoPost 11
Ted Toth

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Myrtle Beach S.C.

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Pete you nailed it
Practice does not make perfect
Perfect practice makes perfect

it is so easy to learn bad habits
and so hard to correct them

.

You don't stop laughing because you grow old, you grow old because you stopped laughing.

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04-04-2005 08:20 PM  13 years agoPost 12
heligoole

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yorkshire,uk

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does the software for reflex come in cd-rom form?i have v10 with floppy disk

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04-04-2005 10:43 PM  13 years agoPost 13
Tim B

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Pasco, Washington

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Yeah CD. So many computers these days don't even have floppy drives anymore (mine included).

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04-04-2005 10:51 PM  13 years agoPost 14
AirWolfRC

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So . . . which one shows to be more realistic in the dynamics ?

Reflex or G3 ?

Wolfgang

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04-04-2005 11:59 PM  13 years agoPost 15
Jeff Swartz

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Ohio

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Pete,

While you were there, did you "tweak" any setting on those 4 sims at Toledo?

The two in front with the big screens seemed to all be set to factory defaults. (Not my favorate settings) Everyone should know that EVERY sim needs a little tweaking to get it to the likes of the person that is flying it. The notchy airplane style collective stick didnt help either.

I recall last year XTR was a terrible representation of the heli portion of that sim, when in reality..... it was much better after it was messed with for a while.

I didn't go and mess with the xtr this year to see how it compaired back to back. But Jeff Green was there coaxing me into flying under some tents from across the way.. so I had to apease him a little. LOL

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04-05-2005 06:15 AM  13 years agoPost 16
spaceman spiff

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Tucson

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------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The GF 4000 doesnt have shadows,i'm surprized you even like G3 on a bottom of the line video card like that. A good video card would make G3 much better."
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks, i had heard that it requires a good card. Just picked up a Geforce 6800 this evening, (almost 300$ ) now have shadows and better detail on G3. Reflex runs at a much better frame rate too. (was 20, now 60 FPS)

Thanks for posting the videos RC fan. I notice when the throtle hold is turned off on your reflex the engine shuts down imeadiately. For some reason mine fades away to idle quite slowly, gave me the impression they were cheating by letting the engine fade away to give you time to get it down, instead of having real function auto simulation. Had trouble with it a few times too. I may jumped to a wrong conclusion, but others have had similar complaints Will work on the settings a bit.

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04-05-2005 08:29 AM  13 years agoPost 17
bit64

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Redmond, WA

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Only 60 FPS on the 6800?? I bet you have your vsync on, and your refresh rate at 60 Mhz. Try turning your vsync off in your control panel, you should get much higher framerates than that, unless KE is doing something very wrong

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04-05-2005 09:06 AM  13 years agoPost 18
Tim B

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Pasco, Washington

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Or check to see if you can increase the Mhz setting for your monitor so that you'll have a higher framerate with v-sync. On my system I find that vsync keeps the graphics smooth, and without it the framerates are higher but jump around alot and cause a slight jitter.

After posting the above, I played around with my settings again and found that I actually get better performance by turning off my vsync and adjusting my direct3d settings.

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04-05-2005 01:19 PM  13 years agoPost 19
RCfan

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Longwood, FL USA

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I notice when the throtle hold is turned off on your reflex the engine shuts down imeadiately. For some reason mine fades away to idle quite slowly, gave me the impression they were cheating by letting the engine fade away to give you time to get it down, instead of having real function auto simulation. Had trouble with it a few times too. I may jumped to a wrong conclusion, but others have had similar complaints Will work on the settings a bit.
As I mentioned, both videos were taken on stock models. The engine sound goes to idle (as it does in real life when you go into hold), but the RPMs don't slow quickly (which the video doesn't show due to Fraps not showing the whole window); you can hear the engine sound as it reaches touch-down. The Raptor tuning model is a hard to auto, but with practice you can get it every time.

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04-05-2005 04:19 PM  13 years agoPost 20
spaceman spiff

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Tucson

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The nvidi control panel that pops up just has some generic setting for "performance", but couldn't find anything about v sinc. If i select performance mode and refresh rate of 75, I get 75 Frames Per Second. Looks like it is limited by refresh rate. Looks and works pretty good anyway.

Turns out i had throtle hold set for 20 something. when i turned it down, the engine shuts down pretty fast. Did a little practicing last night, doing better with upright autos, still loosing head speed and can't get it back if i try an inverted auto. drops out of the sky as i come around to upright. Found some settings for rotor inertia and lift effectiveness, will play with those settings a bit.

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