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03-30-2005 11:15 PM  13 years agoPost 1
737Driver

rrNovice

Brisbane, QLD Australia

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Sorry Guys but I am at a loss.

I did a search of the forums and have tried everything suggested so far.

My Setup:

Align 400LF 2800KV motor
Kokam 1500 Lipo
Futaba GY 240 Gyro
HS 55's for controls
HS 50 for tail
Standard boom
Standard ABS/Wood blades
Schulze 835 receiver
CC25 ESC
Ball link on all arms
Standard Tail Pitch Slider

With HH on the highest I can get without WAG is about 25% gain.

I have tried swapping the HS50 for a HS55 on the tail, same thing.

I have checked the linkages for tightness, ensured the servo is not binding.

I have tried the middle and outer holes on the rudder servo arm.

I have tried the tail rod guide hole and without.

I tightened the tail slider arm and tried it loose.

Is it worth getting a GWS Naro servo or JR 3801 or HS 56 for the tail?
IS it worth getting the stretch kit? I am still learning at this stage, so want to keep the cost down in case of a crash.

At this stage an aftermarket tail pitch slider is unavailable in Australia.

Another thing I have noticed is on initial hover the nose wants to roate to the left, thus requiring right rudder input to keep it straight. I moved the servo away from the frame and back again, it still does it.

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,


737Driver

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03-31-2005 12:35 AM  13 years agoPost 2
totSandman

rrApprentice

Still Unkown

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HELLO
Did you try this ?
First set the gain to 65% . Then spool the heli up WITH hh on . get it to about half throttle then turn hh off . Now spool the heli up until it starts to spin and trim the tail as close as you can .keep doing this until you get close to your max speed . Once you have it as close as you think you can get it spool down and turn the heli off and restart it with hh back on .

Blade400 2221-8, DS285MG ,Spartan DS76,Jr3400G ,CC35 ESC ,CC10amp BEC/ T-Rex 500 lots of upgrades

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03-31-2005 12:38 AM  13 years agoPost 3
d_wheel

rrVeteran

Deep in the heart of Texas.

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It seems that you and I are having the same problem. I have tried the HS56 servo, as well as everything else you wrote about, and it does not help at all. The only thing I have not tried is one of the aftermarket tail pitch sliders. My stock unit has so much slop that the tail blades can be twisted 5 degrees without moving the control rod! I have replacements on order from both microheli and rchover. Neither has arrived yet. If they do not cure the wag, I plan to remove my electronics and feed the heli through my wood chipper! Will let you know if it ends up as a flying machine or mulch.

Later;

D.W.

Gettin old aint for sissies!

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03-31-2005 12:47 AM  13 years agoPost 4
737Driver

rrNovice

Brisbane, QLD Australia

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Thanks guys,

d_wheel I hope it flies rather than being mulch............ Please let me know how the after market sliders go.

totSandman, I will give it a go see how it works. I only have the Gy240 so no remote gain adjustment, therefore will have to be careful adjusting the gain whilst it is spooled up.........

I dont really want to buy another servo unless of course my existing ones break, like I said trying to keep the inital cost down, as she who must be obeyed is closely watching the heli expenditure!

Hopefully we can find a solution.

Regards,

737Driver

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03-31-2005 12:57 AM  13 years agoPost 5
Triton 3D

rrNovice

Puerto Rico

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Well guys i had the same problem , i changed everithing he sed , but i had the zoom gyro, that was my problem, i put a Futaba GY401 and good bye to the problem, WOW what a heading lock!!!!! Best Gyro i had ever seen, Good Luck!!!!

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03-31-2005 01:04 AM  13 years agoPost 6
Jarod

rrVeteran

USA

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Where is your Gyro located on the heli?

I have a stock setup and my tail isnt perfect but its not a problem. I have about 15 hours combined time on my T-Rex's. I fly some 3D style. So far the only problems I have had with the tail were all resolved by adjusting throttle curves and trying different gain and physicall location of the 240 I use. I cannot get a clean tail unless I mount the darn gyro on top of the frame were they reccomend. I need to make a bracket to at liest bring it down under the boom but for now thats the only location that works? I spent hours trying to get the gyro to work under the main shaft inside the chassis. It never would give good performane there. Im not sure if these pics help. If you could let us see your setup that would help.

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03-31-2005 01:10 AM  13 years agoPost 7
totSandman

rrApprentice

Still Unkown

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Don't adjust the gain while you are spooled up. You have to do that with the power off.
Just use the trim lever under your throttle stick With HH off for the tail . This will change the pitch of the blades a little at a time until you get it to where it will counter the torque or your head spinning . You need to get it as close as you can so that when you are spooled up at you top speed the tail is not trying to spin in the opposite direction AND if that is happening then the gyro is trying to pull it back to where it thinks it should be . Think of it as a tug of war between the tail and the gyro . the trick is to make it to where the tail gives up and stays in on spot almost by its self then the gyro only has to correct for more important things

Blade400 2221-8, DS285MG ,Spartan DS76,Jr3400G ,CC35 ESC ,CC10amp BEC/ T-Rex 500 lots of upgrades

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03-31-2005 02:00 AM  13 years agoPost 8
westcoastchoper

rrApprentice

Denton, Tx

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I use a 401 and have never really had a wag problem, but I did modify the tail which helped me out alot. I switched out the short plastic ball links for the standard length ones on the slider to the blade grips. The kit had 2 extra ones. With this, I was able to get a super fast piro rate both directions instead of fast to the right and kinda fast to the left.( depending on wether you are pushing or pulling the blade grips) Don't know if it will help with wag, but its worth a try. I wasn't able to get a good trim until I did this.

Josh

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03-31-2005 04:07 AM  13 years agoPost 9
helibob

rrNovice

White Plains, NY

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Tail wagging can caused by bent main shaft, bent stabilizer rod, bad main shaft bearings. Or it's just hunting. TOOO much play in the tail rotor.Pin the heli to the ground and look at the center of the head. Is it wobbling? That will answer the question if its' the head or tail. If it's the tail, make sure the tail rotor is tight. Too much slop will cause the same thing. A continious wag not a hunt. The gyro will try to correct for a wag. It all goes nut's. The precision rotor for MH will fix the tail, if that's it.

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03-31-2005 04:52 AM  13 years agoPost 10
rcmarty

rrVeteran

Penticton , B.C. CANADA

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Try a simple mod to the tail pitch slider. Mine had soo much play in it i dind't blame the gyro one bit. My heli would change setting by about 10 degrees by it's self at random. No sure why but i did the homebrew mod and moved the gyro and it's good now. Piolt could use improvement but tail's not to blame anymore.

I used the elevator arm from the pitch arm for the piece. It was left over from the ccpm mod.


Gyro was up front like so..


Martin

But now it's out back on a mount i whipped up

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03-31-2005 05:08 AM  13 years agoPost 11
synchro505

rrApprentice

Topanga, CA

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I'm sorry but these heli pictures are just way too clean. Not nearly enough grass stains, mud, dirt and scrape marks....

synchro

.

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03-31-2005 05:14 AM  13 years agoPost 12
thunder21

rrApprentice

College Park, MD

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Jarod, The tail rotor in the last picture you posted appears to be turning the wrong direction. The one on the heli under the table looks correct.

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03-31-2005 11:06 AM  13 years agoPost 13
ovaltine

rrNovice

Melbourne, Australia

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I've always wondered why it has to turn counter-clockwise to be correct. I can't see any reason why it will be less effective when it turns clockwise (by twisting the belt the other way) as long as the blade orientation is adjusted accordingly, ie reversed. Can someone please explain?

While on this topic, I've seen two other reasons why some beginners (like me) get tail wag. 1. The tail rotor is spinning clockwise with the blades oriented for counter-clockwise (or vice-versa); and 2. the tail rotor links are screwed on too tight.

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03-31-2005 12:57 PM  13 years agoPost 14
MMarshall

rrNovice

Herndon, VA

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The difference in the direction the tail turns is one way (clockwise) the pitch linkage attaches to the rear of the blade holder and (clockwise) it attaches to the front.

I would guess there would be less strain on the linkage if moving the front of the holder because the air would help pull the blade? And if at the rear the air would resist the movement?

Thats my guess anyway.. I have run my tails both ways and see no difference in piro rate so it does not seem to affect performance too bad.

Mike

Gravity is a harsh mistress

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03-31-2005 01:45 PM  13 years agoPost 15
Jarod

rrVeteran

USA

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Yea thats true, I never seem to rememeber what way the tail rotor blades are supposed to spin. I have never noticed it causing any bad flight tendencies. I just make sure the sharp edge doesnt spin into the wind. I tried that once and actually flew it for a few minutes. It flew like that but it wasnt pretty.

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04-03-2005 12:04 AM  13 years agoPost 16
Jarod

rrVeteran

USA

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HHmmm It doesnt look backwards to me? You are reffering to the tail rotor blade grips I assume. As for the direction the tail rotor spins I have one heli that is normal and the other is backwards as you would call it. I have no tail issues and I dont think it matters what way your tail rotor spins. If it does I havent noticed it at all. I would like to know why one way is more preffered then the other if you have the answer.

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04-03-2005 12:10 AM  13 years agoPost 17
Jarod

rrVeteran

USA

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I appreciate you looking out for me. I just checked the slop on my tail blades and there is virtually none at all. Thats probably why I dont have any tail issues. Even if its backwards then the way the directions say Im leaving it alone. If it aint broke dont break it.

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04-03-2005 12:11 AM  13 years agoPost 18
wildstallionuk

rrKey Veteran

ENGLAND, FOLKESTONE, KENT

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No I dont think it matters either, I think in the manual it shows the ball joint leading infront of the tail blade too.

Check out the items I have for sale in the clasifieds including a CSM 420

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04-03-2005 12:14 AM  13 years agoPost 19
jemo

rrNovice

SouthWest Florida

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Then tail roror should spin into the mail blade wash. It is supposed to be more efficient.

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04-03-2005 12:18 AM  13 years agoPost 20
Jarod

rrVeteran

USA

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Next time I replace the boom Ill switch everything around and see if it still performs the same.

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