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HomeAircraftHelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › Percentage oil?
03-30-2005 11:42 AM  13 years agoPost 1
GroundPounder

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South Africa, Cape Town

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Ok, my fuel mix is as follows:
10% Nitro
10% Castor
10% Klotz HV
70% Methanol

This is too much oil it seems, and I now hear from a number of guys that when using synthetic in the mix, the oil can safely be reduced to 12-15%.

And that I should up the nitro to15%.

Oh, my THIRD auto was successfull

GroundPounder

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03-30-2005 12:05 PM  13 years agoPost 2
NRoof

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Palmyra, NY

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GroundPounder,
As far as exactly how much oil you need I personally can't answer that but I know OS requires 18% at a minimum for their warranty.

WC HV heli fuel is 18% oil
WC LV heli fuel is 23% oil
CP 15% heli is 17% oil
CP 30% heli is 22% oil
CP 30%LS (Low smoke) is 20% oil

Depending on the viscosity of the oil you are using I wouldn't go below 18% oil and you may want to be around 20% just to makes sure. You can still up the nitro% to what you want by simply reducing the amount of methanol.

edit:
Don't quote me on this but I seem to recall that when you get to around 14% oil you have a much higher chance of engine damage due to lack of oil. Not sure if it is true or where I heard it.

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03-30-2005 12:16 PM  13 years agoPost 3
GroundPounder

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South Africa, Cape Town

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Thanks for that info, the other question would be, what fuel is used at FAI sanctioned heli events?

I have heard that the plank guys are limited to 20 castor 80 methanol only.

GroundPounder

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03-30-2005 12:39 PM  13 years agoPost 4
NRoof

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Palmyra, NY

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what fuel is used at FAI sanctioned heli events?
The following is taken from the

FÉDÉRATION AÉRONAUTIQUE INTERNATIONALE (FAI)
SPORTING CODE SECTION IV 2004

Page 46 of document

FUEL - The organisers shall provide, for cost, up to 20 litres (5 litres F1C) of fuel per competitor for practice flying and, when a standard
FAI fuel is not specified, for use in competitions. The fuel must be requested in advance (at the time of entry). Unless a standard fuel is
specified for use in an event, the competitor shall specify the constituents to be purchased on his behalf. Competitors in F3A may select fuel
only from the following types:
1) 80% methanol 20% castor oil
2) 70% methanol 10% nitromethane 20% castor oil
3) 80% methanol 20% synthetic oil
4) 70% methanol 10% nitromethane 20% synthetic oil.
Fuel supplied by the organisers shall be mixed from top quality material. Methanol shall be at least commercial grade without additives.
Castor oil, when used, shall be at least equivalent in quality to Castrol M.

Here is the full document in pdf format

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03-30-2005 03:51 PM  13 years agoPost 5
Gary

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Crosby, Texas

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GroundPounder,

I mix my own fuel using Klotz Nitro and Klotz Lubricants. I run 30% Nitro, 18% Original Techniplate which is an HV oil. The great part about the original Techniplate is the almost absence of smoke. I have also used their Heli-Glow which is an LV oil and I mixed it at 23% but it was way too smokey for my liking. To this point I have no problems with any of my OS C-Spec engines running this mixture.

"Who said obsession was a bad thing"

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03-30-2005 04:01 PM  13 years agoPost 6
GroundPounder

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South Africa, Cape Town

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Slowly losing the faith here,
I've now mixed 15% nitro, 7% castor, 8% Klotz, 70% Methanol, and STILL the same problem.
The engine blows out huge amounts of oil droplets, and some smoke.
As I lean out the needles, the smoke gets less, the oil seems the same.
This in a hover.
If I fiddle the needles, I get it so lean, it doesn't run, but until that point, still oil pouring out the exhaust.
The syn oil comes in a gallon plastic bottle, marked SIG, KLOTZ, TECHNIPLATE, 2-cycle racing oil, and is red.
Tomorrow I will try nitro, castor, and methanol, let you know.

GroundPounder

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03-30-2005 04:16 PM  13 years agoPost 7
Gary

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Crosby, Texas

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GroundPounder,

What you are describing is normal. These engines will spit out droplets of oil which is not a problem. What will be a problem is if you drop the oil % down too low.

"Who said obsession was a bad thing"

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03-30-2005 04:38 PM  13 years agoPost 8
GroundPounder

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South Africa, Cape Town

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Thanks Gary, and the other replyees,
Maybe the problem is with the engine, or the glow plug.
Regarding the oil blowing out, I'm used to plank engines, and there you don't have much of an oppertunity to observe them at close range, and for extended periods, at "power delivering settings", other than at start up.
The engine is a TT50, and has about 15 litres of fuel through it.
Compression is good, starts easily, only now I'm getting flameouts.
I've done the low needle mod, that seems to have worsen'd the problem.
At this point, I set up the engine with a full tank, and don't fly longer than half a tank.
The frustating bit is, at half a tank I tweak the needles, and can fly until it is empty.

Oh well, this is my first heli, maybe I don't pray to the right gods yet!!!!

GroundPounder

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03-30-2005 04:49 PM  13 years agoPost 9
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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Castor oil doesn't burn up like synthetic,with the rich needle settings we use with heli's too much castor will cause what you are talking about.
I would use less castor 2% or 3% should be plenty and 15% synthetic.
Heli's are flowing a lot more fuel through the motor than airplane motors so you will see more oil spued from the exhaust.

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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03-30-2005 05:04 PM  13 years agoPost 10
Gary

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Crosby, Texas

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Before you give up, on your next time out, fly it for a few minutes and then land and check the backplate on the engine. If it's not even warm you're just running it too rich. The opposite of course if it's too hot. You should be able to keep your finger on the backplate for several seconds without havign to pull it away. If you are getting a variance throughout the tank of fuel then you may want to start looking at a possible leak or maybe plug. Also, and this is very rare, on these aluminum cases they can sometimes have pin holes that may not open up until the engine gets warm. They are just cast aluminum and all it takes is a small hole to cause a leak.

"Who said obsession was a bad thing"

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03-30-2005 05:39 PM  13 years agoPost 11
GroundPounder

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South Africa, Cape Town

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Gary,
The backplate is fairly cool, I can keep my finger on it.
Previously I ran the engine on straight castor/methanol, and it got damn hot.
I've finished a little PIC based circuit that display temp and batt voltage, I hope to have it installed by the WE, so that the temp isn't all that subjective.
Thing is, up to now, I've been mainly hovering and slow circuits, the last two months I'm into throwing it around, with rapid changes to power/cyclic.
Now the engine acts up, and I **** myself during auto's.

I've googled "klotz techniplate", and the info is rather confusing.
Some sites associate this oil with gasoline engines, some with methanol, some mutually, some exclusively.
The can I have is marketed by SIG, and I associate them with RC stuff only.
I should have some spares by the WE, can be adventurous with my Rappy again.

GroundPounder

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03-30-2005 07:42 PM  13 years agoPost 12
fritzthecat

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Virginia Beach, VA

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My recommendation is to reduce the castor oil to 1% or 2% and add 15% of the synthtic oil. 10% nitro is enough.

As you noticed, straight castor is pretty much hated by heli engines.

Fritz


'Send Money, Women and Guns!'

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03-30-2005 10:36 PM  13 years agoPost 13
hepsibar

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Perth WA

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I made some batches of fuel using the clotz super techniplate and my heli is covered in oil droplets - this is normal. I also tried some ML70 / clotz mix of oil.

The clotz only oil mix seemed to give the best running. I am into my last gallon of the clotz 19%, 16% Nitro methanol 65%mix.

Seems to work well with the c-spec but I will probably start using off the shelf fuels to save the hastle of making my own.

I do recall flying my webra 75 and it went lean and the oil droplets had grey streaks in it. This could have been due to the ML70 mix but I cannot say for sure.

Empty Coffee Cup

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03-30-2005 10:55 PM  13 years agoPost 14
Wisdom-Seeker

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Danville, CA

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it went lean and the oil droplets had grey streaks in it.
Gray streaks!! Yikes! That usually means powdered metal in the exhaust. This is never a good sign.

--

Wisdom-Seeker
Protest letter to insurance co.: What do you mean "Act of God"?

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03-31-2005 08:27 AM  13 years agoPost 15
hepsibar

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Perth WA

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Cheers - I thought it was something to do with the ML70 oil breaking down and burning -

I had done some polishing of the muffler come to think about it so maybe I did not manage to flush all the ***te out! Ooops. It only happened once and It has not happened since.

It did not do damage to the engine as I have had at least two gallons through it since and all bearings are smooth and the piston surface and liner are fine too. Maybe I will start using up that ML70 oil again.

Many thanks

Empty Coffee Cup

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03-31-2005 02:33 PM  13 years agoPost 16
Gary

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Crosby, Texas

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The Klotz Super Techniplate is a synthetic/castor blend. It's a good oil but I just don't care for the deposits that it will leave on anything shiny. Once it gets on a hot pipe it will leave a brown stain from the castor. That's why I run the original Techniplate. If I wasn't burning so much fuel a week I probably wouldn't be mixing my own either, but I average anywhere between 4 and 6 gallons a week. In the long run it does add up on the savings from buying off the shelf.

I don't know, maybe after I've been flying for a few years I may slow down some but it's only been 7 months and I can't get enough of helis.

"Who said obsession was a bad thing"

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03-31-2005 04:25 PM  13 years agoPost 17
GroundPounder

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South Africa, Cape Town

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After sifting and distilling all the reply's, and pm's, I think I might just have an engine problem, not a fuel problem.
Or a fuel delivery problem.
The Klotz I have is called "100% pure synthetic Techniplate"
Comes in a round gallon jug.
I'll play this weekend, thanks guys.

GroundPounder

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04-03-2005 08:30 AM  13 years agoPost 18
w.pasman

rrElite Veteran

Netherlands

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I'm using exactly 18% oil in my own mixture. I'm using carbulin oil (now called P2000), which is normal cheap synthetic oil that comes with a little (2% or so) castor in it. Maybe you could go down from your 20% oil to 18% to see if that helps, a few % less oil can make a big difference. As mentioned OS requires 18% oil but with good oils like klotz I think 16% will be safe as long as your engine is properly tuned.
Are you sure that klotz and castor work OK together? You could try a mix with only klotz, no castor.
If your fuel is a problem, the first thing to look at is the methanol. There can't go too much wrong with oil.

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04-03-2005 08:52 AM  13 years agoPost 19
Raptor_in_Swede

rrApprentice

Stockholm /Sweden

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I am using 17-18 % synthetic oil (aerosave) in my TT39 and TT50 engines.

I would not go below 16% oil in a 30-50 size engine.
You may do it in a 90 size engine that is running cooler and needs less oil percentage in the fuel.

Klotz super techniplate oil is a mixture of castor oil and techniplate synthetic oil.

Raptor 30V1/TT39H/Hatori#415/GY401_9253
Hirobo GPH GT/TT50H/Hatori #544/GY401_9254
RD8000

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04-03-2005 02:54 PM  13 years agoPost 20
Jafa

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Sydney, Australia

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Raptor_in_Swede:

Is it synthetic or SynthTech?

SynthTech is recommended at 1:12 which is about 8.3%

Some people run it at 10% in both the 50 and 90


Protos | Logo 400 & 500 | Sceadu Evo | Freya Evo | Trex600N | Avant FX

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