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Century Radikal E640 - Swift 16 NX
› A little 3D pro info
05-04-2005 12:08 AM  13 years agoPost 41
rerazor

rrElite Veteran

Mich.

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My gear mesh seemed to go from tight to worn in perfect to loose mesh.

I finally got tired of not being able to see the gear mesh or lack of because of the gear box. What I did was cut a "half-moon" on the bottom of the tail case and observed the gear mesh. The pinion on the tail shaft needed to be moved closer to the pinion on the CF tail drive shaft (sorry for explanation/names of the parts). Since the pinion on the tail shaft can not be adjusted due to the indentation for the allen set screw it would seem that you are stuck with a mesh thats not adjustable from the factory. The only way I could think of adjusting it was to remove the spacer (slips on the tail shaft) and shorten its length thus bringing the mesh closer. I ended up removing more than needed and used a washer to adjust the mesh correctly.

I also removed the tail boom by loosening the allen screw on the front pinion and pulled the whole tail boom, shaft and tail assembly all out together. I then put the CF tail rod in a drill and spun it up that way to adjust, check and add lube to the tail gear case thru the "half-moon" opening. I put a smalll piece of tape over the opening to prevent dirt etc.. getting in.

Its a "hack" way of doing it but I really had no other way of adjusting the mesh and/or seeing what the problem was. The taill seems to be spinning very nice with just the right amount of gear mesh.

Hopefully my explanation made sense .

I'm thinking a belt drive conversion for this is very possible but will require a larger tail boom or a very small belt The tail does work very well when adjusted correctly.

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05-04-2005 12:46 AM  13 years agoPost 42
zoom

rrElite Veteran

Galveston, Texas

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My tail is smooth as silk.

I only have 2 flights on it.

When I first got the kit:
1. I took the GB off,
2. scuffed up the end of the boom with dremel
3. scratched up the end of the GB where it articulates with the boom.
4. used some 30min epoxy
5. filled the gear box (GB) up with the white synthetic Marine grease by Pennzoil from Walmart 3 bottles for $2.
6. Closed the GB with the grease and epoxy, let sit overnight
7. Spool up for one full TP 1320 mah or atleast ~8-10 mins on the ground.
8. after that, the tail free spins smooth as silk. The excess grease will exit the box shaft on the side of the gear mesh. Then just wipe the off the excess and you will have a permanent solid tail

And Its water proof for those you who are adventurous

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05-04-2005 01:12 AM  13 years agoPost 43
rerazor

rrElite Veteran

Mich.

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My gears worn in very well with the gear box full of white grease. However, after 20+ flights the gear mesh started to get loose to the point that any resistance resulted in the gears skipping. The metal gears do not look worn so I'm still confused on what made the gear mesh change. Maybe they did wear and i just can't see it.

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05-04-2005 02:25 AM  13 years agoPost 44
warren52nz

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Auckland, New Zealand

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Parts have arrived this morning!

4 crown gears, metal main blade holders (mmmmmmm....) and another set of rear blades.

Flew out two batteries again last night in my backyard... no problems.

Then the tail gear was all sloppy and slipping again. Grrrrrrr..... put a washer behind the lateral (tail rotor) shaft to take up the slack and it's right again (for now).

The tail assembly slipped around on the boom last night and stripped off the two little locating bumps on the gearbox housing (as others have reported) so I've had to CA it on which makes it a bit of a drama (New Zealand for "bother") to get off again to do the endless gear mesh adjustment.

Some vibration too but seems manageable. I took off the tail boom and assembled it out of the chopper and played around with the meshing and there's definitely a sweet spot where it will spin around for about 10 turns (gliding) before coming to a stop which looks very promising if I could only get it to do that while on the model. Maybe a new crown gear will fix it.

I can't help but think that there's a "brilliant idea" lurking which will sort out all of these tail issues. It might be fun if we can come up with it before Century does.

Warren - Century Elite 3D Pro

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05-04-2005 02:34 AM  13 years agoPost 45
warren52nz

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Auckland, New Zealand

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The last bit of my last post got me thinking. Don't know if this is "The Unified Field Theory" or not but..........

The lateral tail shaft (the short one that the rear blades are attached to) is supported on the left (looking from the back of the model) by a bearing in the left gearbox housing. The bearing's position determines how the gear on the lateral shaft meshes on the other gear. Yesterday I put a washer on the end of this shaft to move the gear to the right a bit to increase the meshing and it worked.

If you look on the left side of the gearbox on the outside, you can see the end of the lateral shaft, I think. Maybe we could exert a springy force on the end of the shaft to push it gently to the right so that it always meshes with the gear on the torque tube. I'm thinking of an "M" shaped piece of spring steel where the bottom of the "M" touches the shaft and the rest of the "M" is somehow attached to the gearbox.

Or maybe a tiny, rubber O ring instead of the washer I used to do the springy bit. One side of the O ring on the shaft and the other on the inner race of the bearing so, no friction.

What do you think? I might play around with that tonight.

Warren - Century Elite 3D Pro

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05-04-2005 03:13 AM  13 years agoPost 46
rerazor

rrElite Veteran

Mich.

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If you modify the spacer on the tail shaft it will allow the tail shaft mounted gear to more closer to the tail drive shaft pinion.

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05-06-2005 01:00 AM  13 years agoPost 47
warren52nz

rrNovice

Auckland, New Zealand

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Just when I thought my tail problems were resolved.........

Last night I got home and took it out for little hover in my backyard and as soon as it lifted off, it spun madly to the left so I shut it down and sure enough, the tail drive was slipping AGAIN!!!

WTF does it take to sort this problem out?

I've spent about $1,600 US on this project so far and I STILL don't have a flying model. I'd ask for my money back if I thought I'd get it. But I have a lot invested in shipping the model and parts to New Zealand, probably over $200 in shipping alone and I'd lose all that.

So I'd really rather just get this thing working properly. How hard can it be when some of you are getting serious air time on yours?

I'm trying to stay cool but this is really starting to get my dander up.

I have a friend who's a machinist (and a genius) so I'm going to get him to have a look this weekend. I bet that will sort it out. But it shouldn't be necessary.

To my specific problem, I opened up the gearbox yet again and the played around with the meshing. I put a little washer on the end of the tail rotor shaft a couple of days ago to get it to mesh better and it worked beautifully for awhile. Last night I had to put a 2nd washer on to get it to fully mesh but now the gearbox halves won't come all the way together and the meshing is "graunchy".

I noticed that, if I remove both washers, I get no meshing whatsoever! It's as if something's wearing down and creating clearance in the gears. As far as I can tell, the metal gears aren't wearing but I might need a microscope to confirm it. I've replaced them already just to be sure. And both gears' grub screws are tight.

If the gearbox halves don't come together then the GBox will rotate on the boom so that's not very good either. If you increase the diameter of the boom (with tape) to get some grip when the GBox halves don't mate, then it releases its grip on the tail bearing which is captivated by the GBox housing. I just can't win!

I'm thinking a little spring washer (not a lock washer!) pressing gently on the tail rotor gear could be the answer. It could press the gears together no matter how much play there was in the system.

*BIG sigh*

Warren - Century Elite 3D Pro

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05-06-2005 01:24 AM  13 years agoPost 48
rerazor

rrElite Veteran

Mich.

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I'm all done with this gear dirve Junk. See my post above to solve your gear meshing problems. The spacer/collar is preventing the fixed pinion to mesh. shorten the spacer/collar. It worked great for me until the tail case exploded in flight.

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05-06-2005 01:41 AM  13 years agoPost 49
Tmaster

rrKey Veteran

TX

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Ive had the same problem with my PG-03 gyro. Everything was fine, the tail was holding and soon as I lifted off the heli spun like crazy. The gyro was upside down. Once I flipped it over everything was fine.

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05-06-2005 04:48 AM  13 years agoPost 50
warren52nz

rrNovice

Auckland, New Zealand

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"... tail case exploded in flight...."
Sounds like you're not quite finished with this tail business rerazor! 8^)

I bet you're not as sick of it as I am! i think you're advice was very good though, epoxying the whole thing up. I just can't do that until I get it meshing properly because I won't be able to adjust it then.

One of my problems is I can't get the tail rotor gear off because the grub screw is too tight! I bought 2 new allen keys today so hopefully that'll work. Also I'll try heating it with my soldering iron. Then I'll shorthen the sleeve a bit.

I have a feeling that, after talking to my machinist friend, I'll end up re-building the whole tail drive from scratch and doing it PROPERLY!

I just want to fly..... *sigh*

Warren - Century Elite 3D Pro

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05-06-2005 04:50 AM  13 years agoPost 51
rerazor

rrElite Veteran

Mich.

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BELT DRIVE CONVERSION!!!

Can you remove the tail slider assembly and then slide the shaft out that way to access the spacer?? I keep grinding the POS allen wrench down so it will work before twisting again.

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05-06-2005 02:11 PM  13 years agoPost 52
patriot21

rrKey Veteran

Byron,MN

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Warren,,,
"I've spent about $1,600 US on this project so far and I STILL don't have a flying model. "


Man you could have a nice 60 nitro heli or maybe even 3 30 size nitros for that amount!!!
wow!! 1600.00 on a 139.00 heli!!

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05-08-2005 01:45 AM  13 years agoPost 53
twinblade

rrNovice

Hartsville, SC

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gearbox spinning prob fixed
On my third flight the tail gearbox spun around on the boom...I was hopeing I wouldn't have the same problem as the rest of you. I drilled two little holes on the vertical stabalizer put a spacer between it and the boom. I then took a nylon tie wrap and wrapped it around the boom and through the two holes. I tried to spin the gearbox and could, with great force, this would probably be enough to stop the spinning but I also Ca'd the tie to the boom to make sure. I filled the gear box with lithium grease. Now the gear mesh feels great, very smooth, and the tail dosen't have a chance of spinning. It flies great now and I'm starting to build up some confidence in this little bird. It did take a bit of tweaking to get it to fly well. I had to set my throttle curve at 30% when the stick is centered and the blades at 0 deg. The head speed was way to high, the hummingbird couldn't take it..it would start to shake like crazy. The blades are balanced to within 0.0001 grams so I'm sure that's not the problem. Any other idieas? I wouldn't want that much head speed but I still wonder why it shakes so much.

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05-08-2005 05:20 AM  13 years agoPost 54
Tmaster

rrKey Veteran

TX

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main shaft is bent.

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05-09-2005 06:14 AM  13 years agoPost 55
warren52nz

rrNovice

Auckland, New Zealand

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I'm not sure what you mean rerazor. Let me rephrase that... I haven't a clue what you mean. Sorry.

I had more problems with mine in the weekend but at least I got 3 flights out of it.

I actually connected the tail rotor to a motor out of my XRB and spun it up. Got to a very high rev but as soon as I dialled in any pitch, it slowed right down even though the motor is about 20 watts (compared to the main brushless at 110).

Man the tail uses a HUGE amount of energy!!! And the motor would screw up the CG completely.

I'm thinking belt drive too but it would be tricky I bet. I can get a TRex from China for about $150 and I'm thinking about that. I just ordered another $80 of parts from Century and it ain't half a helicopter!!! Hell, it ain't a tenth of a helicopter! You listening Century?

*sigh*

Warren - Century Elite 3D Pro

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05-09-2005 06:21 AM  13 years agoPost 56
warren52nz

rrNovice

Auckland, New Zealand

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Patriot21. "Man you could have a nice 60 nitro heli or maybe even 3 30 size nitros for that amount!!!
wow!! 1600.00 on a 139.00 heli!!"

Don't rub it in. Wait until my wife sees the VISA bill !!! I have quite a few spare parts now but, after all that expense, I'm STILL grounded because of the stupid tail ! Shipping is expensive to New Zealand. It takes about 12 hours in the air to get from LA to NZ! 8 hours from Hawaii I think. But I looked it up, I'm just over $2,000 NZ now. That includes the transmitter, the servos, brushless, battery, radio receiver, GY401 and spare parts. Metal blade grips. It all adds up. And there's probably $200-$300 in shipping in there.

I just want to fly........ *sob*

Warren - Century Elite 3D Pro

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05-09-2005 01:19 PM  13 years agoPost 57
patriot21

rrKey Veteran

Byron,MN

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Warren,,,
Might as well go nitro now... so at least you can do some flying!!

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05-09-2005 07:37 PM  13 years agoPost 58
rerazor

rrElite Veteran

Mich.

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Belt drive will be a fairly easy conversion. I already have a mock up that has been bench tested. I'm just testing to see if I should run the belt inside the stock boom (seems to be a tight fit , use a larger boom (shogun) or run the belt on the outside. I'll have a "Hack V1" protoype running within a week.

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05-09-2005 10:20 PM  13 years agoPost 59
warren52nz

rrNovice

Auckland, New Zealand

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I'm very interested in your belt drive mod, rerazor. Let me know how it works and how to do it, if you don't mind.

I've been thinking the same thing. A motor directly on the tail would be too heavy. Even my 20 watt brush motor isn't strong enough and it's already far too heavy back there.

I would imagine the boom IS too narrow to take the kind of belt you'll need. And if the pulley that drives the tail is too far out the left, I think the uneven load on the bearings might be a problem in time.

Anyway, you've obviously had a lot more experience in this that I have. I'm all ears for your design.

As for "going nitro", I'd consider it if I could get my $1,600 back but I can't spend that again without a divorce! I like the idea of electric too.

Thanks
Warren

Warren - Century Elite 3D Pro

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05-15-2005 11:19 PM  13 years agoPost 60
warren52nz

rrNovice

Auckland, New Zealand

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Main Shaft Bent?
While waiting for the latest parts for my tail drive, I thought I may as well replace the main shaft to see if I could get rid of some vibration. And I have one in stock so I did it.

I also noticed that the rotating bit of the swash plate wobbles back and forth as the shaft turns which looks like a bent shaft to me but replacing the shaft didn't fix it. Both shafts roll along a flat surface nice and smoothly too which suggests they're straight.... well pretty straight, anyway.

I'm at a loss to explain why the swash wobbles but it must be creating some vibration. Does anyone have any ideas on this or has anyone else noticed this? Maybe the bearing on the swash isn't straight or is loose or something like that.
???
Cheers

Warren - Century Elite 3D Pro

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