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Century Radikal E640 - Swift 16 NX
› A little 3D pro info
03-31-2005 05:40 PM  13 years agoPost 21
Tmaster

rrKey Veteran

TX

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9mm is too large OD. Im measuring 5/16 or 0.3125 for the acuall boom which the closest metric size is 8mm. at 0.314. 9mm is .0354. You'll have to drill out the boom holding end to fit it. plus the gear box.
Your ID is going to be larger at 0.3148" the stock ID is 0.2845". I hope your Oring on the torque bearing has a large tolerance not to slide.

I have a hard time beliving im going to chop this brass tube off LOL!
Iv'e put two small dings in the weak aluminum and some slight bends, this brass is way stronger, at the sacrifice of weight. But at $1.59 i'm not complaining because of against the $14 stock replacement.

They do make aluminum tube for less then $1, my LHS just didnt have any! lol I would have gotten 3 sticks of aluminum.... hmm maybe i can order some

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03-31-2005 08:39 PM  13 years agoPost 22
Tmaster

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TX

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How about a hornet2 boom? I heard they are 8mm OD. the only thing that wouldnt work is the Torque tube bearing wouldn't fit. I bet it would cost a lot for the hornet 2 parts to make a hornet tail end for the 3D pro... boom, gearbox, gears, silder, grips etc....

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03-31-2005 09:09 PM  13 years agoPost 23
wilsonj

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Waikerie, South Australia

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Tmaster,

sorry, my typo, I meant the tube is 8mm, not 9. Thats what I get for not wearing my glasses! hehe Oh, and the tube even has the holes drilled at one end!

Don't bother with the hornet stuff. Thats the main reason we are flying the pro! WAAAY cheaper.

I used a really strong fiberglass boom on my hornet 1 years ago. It was so strong I couldn't break it with my hands. It hardly even flexed. I chopped it clean off in a crash.

I am always suprised at how much damage these little things can do to themselves in a crash. Especially with high headspeeds.

The one thing I have found that reduces damage to a minimum is to ALWAYS hit throttle hold before the heli hits the deck. I had dozens of crashes, even into rocks with carbon blades and never broke them. The one time I was flying without hold setup I broke them!

Regards
Jamie Wilson

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03-31-2005 09:19 PM  13 years agoPost 24
AFrotorhead

rrApprentice

Las Vegas, NV

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Have you tried looking for graphite arrow shafts that might work?

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03-31-2005 09:25 PM  13 years agoPost 25
Tmaster

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TX

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hm.. i before i crash I usually pull the trottle down all the way, and let it hit. thats in norm mode. but the pitch is 0 degrees at that point. I need to play with the controler and maybe have it so it has more pitch when i let off the trottle so it would crash a little slower. lol i'll take a look at my hold and cutt and lock functions.

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03-31-2005 09:28 PM  13 years agoPost 26
wilsonj

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Waikerie, South Australia

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I will be doing that later too. The wall thickness could be an issue though. Also need to look at Canadian manufacturers, as they use metric shafts. You Americans use those other funny numbers! j/k

Regards
Jamie Wilson

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03-31-2005 09:53 PM  13 years agoPost 27
wilsonj

rrApprentice

Waikerie, South Australia

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Tmaster,

dropping the throttle is the same thing, but I am always in idle up, which causes some problems! But you are right about blade pitch. Having no throttle and max pitch slows the head down fast, reducing inertia and potential damage even more.

One problem I see with extending the boom, is we will need to replace the torque tube/shaft also. I don't think carbon will be much good. I already notice when doing climb outs that the tail wags a bit. I put this down to the 3mm shaft loading up then unloading, causing the tail to slow down then speed up again. Its not to do with the setup. I have noticed the same thing on the pro videos too. Making this longer is only going to exacerbate the problem.

The ideal would be titanium, like Walts on the hornet. But thats expensive and hard to get.

We maybe able to use brass tubeing, but then that bends easy, and its heavy which can cause both vibration and balance problems.

What would be great is another tube made from 7075 aluminium. Any ideas on that one??

Regards
Jamie Wilson

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03-31-2005 10:23 PM  13 years agoPost 28
wilsonj

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Waikerie, South Australia

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Just found something that might work http://www.eagletube.com/metric.asp Not sure how much it would cost. But the 3mm tube looks good. And weighs around 6.8 grams per foot. Probably a bit on the heavy side...But realistically aluminium would only be a few grams lighter anyway.

Regards
Jamie Wilson

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03-31-2005 10:58 PM  13 years agoPost 29
Tmaster

rrKey Veteran

TX

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AFrotorhead, nope, what is there website?

jwilson, I know what your saying the CF tail shaft has flex in it, I was flying in air and the front pinion that meshes with the crown gear came loose in mid air! lol I tightened the *&^% out of it after that. It doesnt bother me too much. Theres no way around it, even if you put 3 torque bearings in the boom, which i had at one time it doesnt make a difference. An aluminum shaft or some sort would probably be the cheapest and the lightest. For now im going to consentrate on the gear box area. I spent forver putting it together last night to get it right. Not being able to see the mesh together sucks, but its working fairly well on how you put it together, mostly everything falls into place. It's just not very sturdy or durable. This is my second heli, so i don't know how other helis are.

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03-31-2005 11:49 PM  13 years agoPost 30
wilsonj

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Waikerie, South Australia

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Tmaster,

I mean the carbon twists, not actually flexes. If thats what you mean?

Did you do what I suggested with the gearbox mesh? I haven't been able to test mine yet to see if it has improved. Please let me know you results.

Regards
Jamie Wilson

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04-01-2005 01:12 AM  13 years agoPost 31
Tmaster

rrKey Veteran

TX

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yes yes twist as in flex sorry... heh

I found the best way for me is to have the gear on the shaft flush with the end of the shaft, then have the back of the gear on the end rubbing against the plastic area that holds the bearing on the shaft

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04-01-2005 01:14 AM  13 years agoPost 32
Tmaster

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TX

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im thinking about drilling a little hole in the gear box so i can peak in and look at the mesh while its together

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05-03-2005 12:55 AM  13 years agoPost 33
warren52nz

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Auckland, New Zealand

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Well I said I'd report back on the results of my completely new tail drive which arrived yesterday. This one is TIGHTER than it should be whereas the first one was looser. I played around with it for an hour or so and got it working as well as I've seen it work so far.

Putting little washers (the bronze ones that go on the bottom of the main shaft) between the casings of the gearbox at each of the 3 holes that hold it together reduced the meshing to a reasonable level by preventing the gearbox from closing completely. But after awhile, it was too loose again! And I suppose dust could get in there now.

Discovered some play was due to the front pinion having a loose grub screw and tightened that up. Seemed not too bad considering my crown gear at the front is all worn down (3rd one, so far with about 30 minutes in the air total)! I've ordered 4 more of these as they seem to be a sacrificial component.

But even with the entire tail section off the model in my hands, turning the front pinion still feels "graunchy". And when installed, the entire rotating assembly only takes about 5 seconds to grind to a halt whereas it's more like 30 seconds without the tail section installed. I have a hard time imagining an auto-rotation on this setup.

I've tried silicon grease too.... no noticeable difference.

I've NEVER felt the tail gears run really smoothly no matter what I try.

I like to fiddle around as much as the next guy (no Michael Jackson jokes) but nothing seems to give me a long term solution on the tail drive and after seeing 2 TRex's with a belt driven rear rotor that are as smooth as silk at 2/3 the price, I'm starting to think I've made the wrong choice of models.

Damn this thing, I just want to fly!

Warren - Century Elite 3D Pro

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05-03-2005 02:52 AM  13 years agoPost 34
wilsonj

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Waikerie, South Australia

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Warren, I've wasted countless hours trying to get the gears to run smooth. I just can't do it! I settled for reasonably smooth and flew it like that. After a couple flights the gears had become much smoother. Not silky, but kinda acceptable.

I agree, autos with this heli will probably not happen. And I am dissapointed to think of the power lost with the tight gears.

Touch your gearbox after a flight, mine is warm.

Regards
Jamie Wilson

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05-03-2005 04:06 AM  13 years agoPost 35
warren52nz

rrNovice

Auckland, New Zealand

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3D Pro Tail Adjustments - some thoughts
I thought I'd post a discussion I'm having with a local heli friend on the tail problem I've been discussing. I have some new observations. The drawing I refer to is the one submitted by Tmaster and I thank him for that. The "tail output gear" referred to the CNE 319, the crown gear is what others are calling it. Mine's looking pretty sad (yet again).
_______________________________________
At 02:13 p.m. 3/05/2005 +1200, Will wrote:
I reckon the amount of play in the rear gears would change depending on where the front tail boom pinion is sitting against the tail output gear on the mainshaft.it is pretty unsmooth, in some areas there will be some play and in others none at all.
The tail output gear will make a big difference once it has all its teeth
back.

Warren wrote:

I thought that too, to the extent that I posted it on a forum. But last night, I played around with that and, with the entire boom and all of the tail bits assembled, including the front pinion, separate from the model, I couldn't make the slightest difference in the rear gear play by pushing and pulling on the front pinion or even the CF shaft with the pinion loosened.

I discovered that (on the new parts which are quite tight) the gear on the rear of the shaft is squashed between the rear bearing which is inside its little collar in the gearbox housing and the "lateral" gear that drives the tail blades. The lateral gear stops it from moving back and the bearing stops it from moving forward. Not a bad strategy, however if the rear gears aren't meshing enough, you can decrease the slop by pushing the torque tube back from the front. That does nothing on the latest set up because there's no play to remove and you can't add play if the rear gears are sandwiched as described above.

I think the best way to add play to the system is to push the lateral gear towards the blades a bit with a washer or similar.

If you look at the drawing (Tmaster) which shows part of the rear assembly, I think you could reduce play by putting a washer where it says "gear flush against wall" and increase play by putting one on the end of the lateral shaft. Maybe as simple as that.

Having said all that, it seems that no matter how I adjust it, it just never feels completely free to turn and, worse still, it doesn't stay the same no matter what I do. So it looks like a constant adjustment is required.

Which is disappointing. I wonder if a brilliant idea might solve the problem. Something like a springy washer on the lateral gear to keep a constant meshing force on the gears.

I do enjoy working on problems like this but I'm starting to wonder if I'll EVER get to fly it regularly!

Warren

Warren - Century Elite 3D Pro

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05-03-2005 04:09 AM  13 years agoPost 36
warren52nz

rrNovice

Auckland, New Zealand

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In reply to WilsonJ

I read your post after submitting the last one. I agree with you. I've had it running reasonably smooth for a short while but my expert friend, Will, says it's nothing like as frictionless as it should be.

My gearbox gets warm too which is a dead giveaway for friction.

We can only hope that someone will come up with a brilliant idea or Century will produce (another) upgrade to fix the problem. I can't understand how some people are having no problems and are doing "hard 3D" with this set up.

*sigh*

Warren - Century Elite 3D Pro

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05-03-2005 04:26 AM  13 years agoPost 37
warren52nz

rrNovice

Auckland, New Zealand

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I'll be a MEGA-Poster soon at this rate but I wanted to add one other observation from last night's effort.

I decided to remove the front pinion at one point and disassembled the gearbox and pulled the driveshaft (torque tube) right out the back and the front pinion stayed in place meshed with the crown gear (CNE319).

COMPLETELY stayed in place, I mean.... I could turn the main shaft and it would rotate with the crown gear as if it still had a shaft through it but it didn't!

It even took some time to pry it free. Eventually a little flat blade screwdriver coaxed it out of its position and it fell out. But it made me think that there might be some problem in there that none of us has noticed.

Any thoughts?

Warren - Century Elite 3D Pro

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05-03-2005 01:14 PM  13 years agoPost 38
rerazor

rrElite Veteran

Mich.

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I'm in the same boat. This is the reason I think belt drive make life so much easier.

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05-03-2005 11:13 PM  13 years agoPost 39
wilsonj

rrApprentice

Waikerie, South Australia

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Warren,

Yes I noticed the same thing with the conical gear staying in place. But its not the main problem. If you rotate the torque drive with the gearbox on you can feel quite a bit of friction.

I haven't seen anyone doing "hard 3D" with this model yet. I was hoping to get some video of mine by now, but other things have cropped up, including a few problems with the model. Oh well maybe soon.

Regards
Jamie Wilson

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05-03-2005 11:53 PM  13 years agoPost 40
twinblade

rrNovice

Hartsville, SC

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I'm getting ready to install my electonics and fly. I sure hope I don't have all these problems with mine. This model did start out with a belt drive, I wonder why they changed it?

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Century Radikal E640 - Swift 16 NX
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