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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Backwards flight???
07-20-2002 04:10 AM  16 years agoPost 1
Kurt64

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Salladasburg, PA

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I have been working on backwards flight. Straight flight is no problem, but when it come to turns, I get all screwed up. Is there a secret getting the correct stick inputs?
P.S. Don't say practice on the sim...I am doing that already.

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07-20-2002 04:16 AM  16 years agoPost 2
Mopzilla

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USA

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P.S. Don't say practice on the sim...I am doing that already.


practice more on the sim!

I think you just have to really concentrate on flying the nose. other than that i have no clue. hope someone else helps you!

-----------------
Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?

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07-20-2002 04:19 AM  16 years agoPost 3
Kurt64

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Salladasburg, PA

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Flying the nose isn't the problem....crossing the sticks and giving it down elevator in a turn is the main issue. It just doesnt feel right and I can't train my brain to think that way yet. I thought there may be trick out there that could help.

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07-20-2002 04:21 AM  16 years agoPost 4
SemiArticulate

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On Location

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kinda. I am no pro but I would suggest using the sim until it was automatic. But when learning you point the tail in the direction you want to go. So your going backwards, you want to make a backwards left turn so you move the 'rudder' stick left. The left/right cyclic will be moved to the right. You push forward cyclic to maintain altitude. So making turns backwards is sticks in or sticks out. Right turn = right 'rudder' but left cyclic. Left turn is left 'rudder' but right cyclic. Or sticks in/sticks out.

Did you just add the sim thing because I didn't read that before?

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07-20-2002 04:24 AM  16 years agoPost 5
Kurt64

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Salladasburg, PA

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I guess the hardest part for me is crossing the sticks....more sim work! It should not be that hard since all normal tuns will be nose in so I know how to react....

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07-21-2002 01:59 AM  16 years agoPost 6
slant911

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Las Vegas, NV. Hirobo, Magnum Fuels, MAH

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What might help you is to lead the turn with the rudder. In a forward turn you lead the turn with aileron movement then follow up with tail (if a HH gyro). With backward flight you need the rudder to lead you through the turn. Start out with a little bit of rudder movement in the direction you want to go then push your aileron stick in the opposite direction. Then just enough down elevator to bring it around.

I went through this about 8 months ago. I was determined to fly circuits backwards and did nothing but that for about a gallon of fuel. I must say that now it is really easy. Like anything else though. Practice, Practice...

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07-21-2002 02:04 AM  16 years agoPost 7
Kurt64

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Salladasburg, PA

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Hey Slant....that makes more sense. What i have been trying is to start the turn with the aileron. I had problems with the heli falling off in the turn. Leading with the rudder may just correct that problem....Thanks

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07-21-2002 02:57 AM  16 years agoPost 8
ALuminum2

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I can fly backwards on the sim in my sleep. I haven't tried it yet since I have to get my raptor running good.

What helped me was giving an opposite tail rotor response with the aieleron. then you add up elevator. You should first try to get a sense of which way makes it go foward and which way stops it. After you get the turns then controling it in flight is something different. since you are used to foward flight the heli will be controlled different comming at you and away. I got good after about a month with about 30 minutes a day. It is not asy to fly backwards. Like I said I still have to do it in real life. I really wish my raptor flew some I could do it.

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07-21-2002 03:39 AM  16 years agoPost 9
Kam Wyatt

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cottondale, Fl.

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Backwards flight- up right or Inverted
Hey Kurt,

One trick that helped me is while flying upright- visualize that wherever you move the left stick (rudder) is where you want to point the tail. if the helicopter is moving away from you. Coming toward you upright backwards is similiar to a hovering orientation.

Practicing climbing in strait backwards flight before you start to turn upright or inverted. A good safety net so you don't get into trouble in the
turn


Backwards inverted moving away from you wherever you want to move
the nose of the helicopter move the left stick (rudder)

Backwards inverted coming toward you move the left stick wherever you want to move or point the tail.

Regards

Kam

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07-21-2002 03:45 AM  16 years agoPost 10
Kurt64

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Salladasburg, PA

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That is the wierd part....I am having an easier time turning while inverted than I am upright while flying backwards. I just need more practice...and maybe a crash kit.

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07-21-2002 07:20 AM  16 years agoPost 11
Augusto

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US

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The trick
When flying backwards:

If upright:

1) Rudder goes oposite to ailerons.
2) Rudder controls the far side of the heli whether it's the nose, the tail or whatever is away from you.


if inverted:

1) Rudder goes the same side as ailerons.
2) Rudder controls the near side whether it's the nose, the tail or whatever is closer to you.

Avant Aurora Ultimate

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07-21-2002 01:17 PM  16 years agoPost 12
rscamp

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Ontario, Canada

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ColeopTer.

I don't understand what you mean by "Rudder controls the far/near side of the heli..." Can you put this another way?

Thanks,

Rob

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07-21-2002 09:45 PM  16 years agoPost 13
Barbary

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new york

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if you learn forward inverted flight first, then crossing the sticks won't seem unnatural. and, ironically, backwards inverted flight won't require you to cross the sticks. i suck at upright backwards, but i learned inverted before trying any backwards, and now backwards inverted comes pretty easily--you just fly the tail as if it were the nose and remember to reverse your rudder/aileron inputs together. then of course there's that collective thing too.

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07-22-2002 03:00 AM  16 years agoPost 14
fitenfyr

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Port Orchard, Washington

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I think....
I think Agusto means that you "steer" the nose or the tail. Inverted you fly the nose. Upgright you fly the tail. I think of course I have been wrong..... but just ONCE!

Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...

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07-22-2002 08:32 AM  16 years agoPost 15
Augusto

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US

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What I mean by that is an orientation cue that actualy works all the time not only while flying backwards.

1) When the helicopter is upright and you move your rudder stick the part of the helicopter that moves the same way as your stick will be the part that is currently away from you (far side).

In other words: If the tail is pointing at you (tail is in the near side) then the nose (the one in the far side) mimics your rudder stick movement. If the nose is pointing towards you then the tail (the one that's away from you or on the far side) will mimic your rudder movements.


2) When the helicopter is inverted and you move your rudder stick the part of the helicopter that moves the same way as your stick will be the part that is currently closer to you (near side).

In other words: If while inverted the tail is pointing at you (tail is in the near side) then it will mimic your rudder stick movement. If the nose is pointing towards you while inverted then it will be the one that mimics your rudder movements.

Recaping:

When inverted your rudder stick is flying or steering the near side and while upright your rudder stick is flying or steering the far side.

This is one of the best orientation cues you can learn. It'll allow you to know ALWAYS where to move the rudder to no matter what position the helicopter is in or whether you're flying forward backwards or in any orientation.


Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate

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07-22-2002 01:47 PM  16 years agoPost 16
dwaynet

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Fairfax, Virginia

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While I think that what Agusto said is a good way to do it, I prefer another way. One of the tricks to flying these 3 dimentional things is that most people try to learn them in a conventional matter and that just doesn't work. Example, using the training sticks for orientation while learning, using the rotor disk after that, or the skids. I improved my flying alot by forcing myself to look at the canopy.

Now for this rudder issue, let me make it real easy for you. Just think of it in terms of clockwise or counter-clockwise. If you learn it like that then there is no orientation that you won't know what input to give.

Example: In upright flight, a left rudder command will always turn the chopper counter-clockwise and a right input will turn clockwise. Inverted is opposite.

Another thing that helped me. Spend some time during your day "flying" in your mind. I do this for a few minutes when I have time. Here's what I do: Imagine the chopper in your head, stationary, in various orientations then tell yourself "Ok, QUICK!! Level it off!! Then analyze your inputs to see if you went in the proper directions. PS - you won't learn if you do the same orientation imediately 2 times in a row

Hope this helps some people having problems, everyone is different in their learning and different things work for different people. Find what works for you.

Dwayne

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07-22-2002 02:10 PM  15 years agoPost 17
elad

rrApprentice

beer sheva (in south) israel

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it's not a problem
when you want to turn let's say left you apply right stik and left rudder
and apply some down stik, to keep on the speed after the turn
you should apply some up stik.
a little advice I'm remember that my rescue is down stik so if I loos my
concentration automaticly I apply down.
as simple as that.

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07-23-2002 12:25 PM  15 years agoPost 18
Andy17

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Ellijay, GA

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ColeopTer Very good instruction. Take your time and don't rush it practice in real life it's better than the sim and once you have the sim down good burn some fuel. About a gallon is right and it's not a problem. Augusto has it right and well said read it untill you know it.

Andy

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07-23-2002 01:41 PM  15 years agoPost 19
JPBIII

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Birmingham,Al

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I have found that you don't need as much rudder flying backwards as you do forward. Try using less rudder, this helped me. The tail doesn't blow out as much now.

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07-23-2002 02:00 PM  15 years agoPost 20
eric_b

rrKey Veteran

Denver, CO, USA

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backwards flight?
U S E ------ T H E ----- F O R C E !!!!!

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